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      CommentAuthorBAJR Host
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     
    http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/icontent/inPages/docs/archaeologicalsalaries.pdf

    I will leave people to read it.

    It is quite far-reaching and will be open to (indeed it welcomes) debate.

    In a nutshell, the Council decided to not allow ROs to reduce salaries, but will work on a system of Pay Bands rather than minima ( I would say a bit like the overlapping bands of BAJR) and finally that in 2010-2011 there will be no increase in pay rates.

    That simplifies a complex document - so do please take the time to read it before commenting.
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      CommentAuthorBAJR Host
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     
    Pay deals in the UK could come under renewed pressure next year despite signs of an economic recovery, a new study has warned.

    According to the Labour Research Department (LRD), a significant number of long-term pay deals are set to expire next year and this is one of several factors that will place downward pressure on salaries.

    It found that one in seven deals in 2010 will be long-term arrangements, compared to one-quarter of settlements in 2009.

    Lewis Emery, the LRD's pay and conditions researcher, believes a number of other factors could keep pay deals on the low side next year, despite signs of growth since April.

    He said: "At least four crucial questions overshadow the chances of continuing pay growth: Will current pay freezes be lifted? What kind of pay offers will employers make with fewer long term deals setting the pace? Will Retail Price Index inflation return? And most decisively of all, what will happen with public sector pay?"

    Recently, research by Incomes Data Services revealed that a third of businesses have imposed a pay freeze so far during 2009.

    http://www.lrd.org.uk/issue.php?pagid=1&issueid=1345

    However, averaged over the whole year, however, the picture does not look quite so bleak. From August 2008-July 2009, 30% overall received less than a 2% rise, including cuts and freezes, covering almost one-third of the workforce; however, a significant 22% (over one-fifth) of deals were for 4% or more, covering 13% of the workforce. This leaves over two-fifths (41%) of deals achieving between 2% and 3.99%, applying to almost half (49%) of workers.

    So I would suggest a wait and see - Lets wait until April 2010 and see where we are as an industry, before saying freeze. I don't feel we know enough... and given that the planned return in the main VAT rate to 17.5% from January 2010 would affect us all. Continued weak or frozen wage growth would imply a squeeze on disposable incomes (which for a 15k a year - working every week! - is already non-existant) , potentially undermining prospects for consumer spending and an economic recovery in general. Accomodation? TRavel? lots to mull over. AND this is complicated.

    I don't have a full handle on this yet, so perhaps the IfA could comment more on the statement

    Where did this come from, as it seems to have taken up a Council Meeting, and must have origins.
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      CommentAuthorKen Denham
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     
    Hmm, could it be, finally, the IfA has decided to bare it's teeth on a matter of principle? If so I might even consider joining. What I found particularly interesting was the statement made under the heading Behaviour in a democratic institute;

    "Council has tried to steer a principled yet pragmatic course through one of the most potentially divisive and damaging debates within the Institute for 20 years. Emotions have run high and threats have been made"

    I'd love to know what the nature of these threats are, who made them and more importantly who was responsible for bringing the issues to debate within the framework of the IfA. Bet it wasn't the IfA themselves.
  1.  
    I have several comments to make on the IfA statement.

    I should declare that I have been a member of the IfA for over 20 years and therefore feel justified in making comment and I am happy to do so on BAJR due to the lack of an equivalant IfA forum.

    In the first instance, I am happy that this attempt by RAOs to change IfA policy on pay minima has been thrown out. But the fact that it has happened at all is very worrying. The IfA held its AGM as recently as September, but the RAO promoters of this proposition obviously felt unable to present this as a motion to the general membership of the Institute and instead tried to force it through by talking to a few buddies on IfA council. That is totally outrageous!! As Gerry Wait reminds us, in the final paragraph of the IfA statement, the IfA is a democratic body. This suggests to me the proposers of this suggestion should be reminded of the IfA constitution and perhaps sent to democracy re-education!! Such actions hardly promote themselves to an already disillusioned and frankly sceptical archaeological profession.

    My second point arises directly from the first. At what point does IfA council feel able to take such a significant step as announcing a pay freeze without presenting the proposition to the membership? Again Gerry if you want to demonstrate democracy within the IfA, put it to the vote. If we cant wait until next September's AGM, lets have a special meeting to discuss this matter and to formulate a propsition for the whole of the membership to vote upon.

    Thirdly what does a proposed pay freeze in 2010/11 do to the previous IFA plan to increase pay levels by a minimum of 13% by 2013?

    And finally (for now), I kinda think that including a small detail in this memo regarding the IfA ‘major campaign …..to encourage local planning and national heritage bodies to exercise their powers to require archaeological work to be undertaken by (IfA) Registered Organisations’ is slightly detracting from the main point. I am not necessarily against such a campaign, but again feel that the membership as a whole should be consulted. What of those IfA members not employed by RAOs who stand to lose work as a result?. Are we not worthy of consultation? This smacks of Labour Party practice of burying bad news in other bad news….

    :face-crying:
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      CommentAuthorChiz
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     
    I have to agree with all of Kevin's points. There appears to have been a concerted and organised campaign by 'responsible postholders ' (ie heads of RO's) to push through a change. Is the nature of the threats that the RO's threatened to leave the RO scheme? Or did someone get offered out the room for some 'education'?

    I have to completely agree with Kevin that this should have been put to IFA membership, I couldn't make the AGM, as I was digging a hole, but such a radical change (more details please??) should not be railroaded through without recourse to the membership. I'd have said that there should have been a fully prepared draft of the new scheme, and knowing the IFA that would have taken about 20 years!

    Whilst we're declaring interests, I'm a member of the IFA and Diggers' Forum, and recently stood for IFA council on a 'fair pay now' ticket. I wish I'd got voted in now.....
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      CommentAuthorDrunky
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     
    Surprised, i thought it would be a story about how they bended over and did nothing

    I would, like others like to know what the threats were

    Perhapes a diffrent thread for suggestions
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      CommentAuthorBAJR Host
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     
    I can now say, that this has been weighing heavy upon me, the enormity of this meeting was not lost.
    As per your suggestions - You as members have that right to know.

    I am worried about the decision of a pay freeze, and the affect it will have. My own suggestion (which I held back until this statement was made) is to wait until April 2010 and then access the situation before making any statement about pay and conditions - (of course tenders muct be made, and this will have implications to this) BUT To condemn a whole year based on today's conditions is not something to be made. As IfA members I urge you to voice your opinions. VAT increases in January, the cost of living will increase, and wages are already being driven down - how low would you go.

    Kevins post perhaps summarises the feelings that I am sure many hold - What happened and why....:face-confused:

    BAJR is but one small voice, but it does allow free speech and comment for all. Use it as you wish.
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      CommentAuthorGnome King
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     
    i thik a new thread IS justified on the completley symptomatic (alleged) behaviour of these RAO's - or more speficically elements of their Directorship and Senior Management Groups.

    CAN THE DIRECTORSHIPS OF REGISTERED ARCHAEOLOGICAL ORGANISATIONS REALLY BE TRUSTED TO DO WHATS RIGHT - NOT ONLY FOR THEIR STAFF AND THE PROFFESION - BUT FOR THE OVERALL UK ARCHAEOLOGICAL ENDEVOUR?
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      CommentAuthorBAJR Host
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    Go for it.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    Hi
    I am very dismayed to read about the "major campaign to encourage
    local planning authorities and national heritage bodies to exercise their powers to require archaeological work to be undertaken by Registered Organisations."

    What about all those self-employed IFA members? Are they supportive of a campaign to exclude them from work? According to Profiling the Prof RAO's represent only 17% of heritage organisations.

    I would estimate that half the work carried out in my patch is by non-RAOs. They are (normally) appropriate, dedicated and with a very good local knowledge base. As an advisor to authorities it's going to take some much more persuasive arguments than the IFA has put forward to try and create an RAO "monopoly". Maybe by becoming a chartered organisation the IFA might influence me to require "Chartered Archaeologists" to carry out work, but at the moment I think the disadvantages of only accepting RAOs far outweighs the advantage of having a more flexible approach.
  2.  
    Not too sure I would regard the concessions the IFA have offered ROs, seemingly made in the face of threats to its RO scheme, as a principled stand. Quite the opposite, this is further evidence of RO interests coming ahead of those of the wider membership. The statement stands as a sad milestone in the erosion of membership interest and the democratic process. Kevin touches on the key points, but I fear the situation is worse still:

    o IfA endorses a pay freeze, which is likely to expand the already disgraceful wage differential identified in the IFA benchmarking study;

    o Increasing the differential and reducing the timescale for correction almost certainly undermines the prospect of achieving a progressive 13% increases in salary minima by 2013. The weakness of the IFA position on this issue is evident in it’s acceptance of RO commitments that are aspirational and not binding. No doubt when the time comes the familiar business case will be cited, ie fear of competition on price will be used to justify a refusal to move on this issue, as has previously occurred during every stage of the economic cycle, whether benign or otherwise. Bear in mind the IFA benchmarking study reflect the situation on the back of more than a decade of sustained growth. Throughout this period the issue of low pay has been debated. This evidence suggests pay differentials are eroded even during period of economic growth, yet the IFA still retains its faith in pay correction rising phoenix-like on any future economic improvement. The IFA needs to ask itself why this has failed to deliver in the past. The obvious answer is that most archaeological employers, many ROs included, are committed to the central business proposition of squeezing cost to gain market advantage, with no regard to the underlying market economics and only limited investment in quality, as defined in a commercial sense;

    o IFA prioritises the imposition of barriers to entry (apparently ahead of action on pay differential), which will discriminate against members whose employers are not ROs, but also props up RO’s operating low cost business models that are evidently neither robust or sustainable and now seemingly dependent of restrictive market barriers. The effectiveness of such barriers is likely to be limited; however it presents the prospect of ‘institutionalising’ underlying business weaknesses, consigning members to long-term pay pressure.

    The most depressing aspect of the IFA statement is the perception that holding costs, effectively a pay cut, will improve the situation for RO employers. It clearly will not. The current problem is that there is not enough work out there to support the current supply-side. Dropping cost might give an individual organisations a short term advantage, but it will not generate any additional demand, it simply fuels further cost pressure. Work will simply move around according to who offers the lowest price, RO or not. In that sense the IFA action has exacerbated the pay crisis.

    Where now for the members who had looked to the IFA for leadership. It might be worth taking a leaf out of the book of the ROs who have been so effective in advancing their interests at the expense of the wider membership. The IFA is far more financially dependent on its members than it is on the RO scheme, perhaps it should be reminded of this. In terms of change, much depends on employers, and whilst recessions are not welcome, they do perhaps offer an opportunity to adjust business models. There are a wide range in operation, even within the historic environment sector, many offering a responsible and mature basis for business development that could prove far more sustainable.
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      CommentAuthorGnome King
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    "whilst recessions are not welcome, they do perhaps offer an opportunity to adjust business models. There are a wide range in operation, even within the historic environment sector, many offering a responsible and mature basis for business development that could prove far more sustainable." - i hope so.......
  3.  
    I posted my original mail on this subject on the IfA Facebook group site and received the following reply from Kathryn...

    Kathryn Whittington replied

    ‘Thanks for your feedback. I am currently collating all responses to pass on to Council. As with all matters relating to IfA work, members can make their views known either to individual members of Council or to Council as a whole via the office.

    As is the case in all democratic membership organisations, Council are elected representatives of the membership, and have responsibility for making decisions about the direction and work of the Institute’.
  4.  
    To which I have replied (again through the IfA Facebook group)

    'Kathryn,

    I think that most members of the IfA will support the councils stand over this matter. However, there has clearly been an attempt here by some IfA members, who appear to be less scrupulous about the etiquette of democracy, to engineer a putsch to impose their view on the majority of IfA members.

    As I said in my original reply there was opportunity for any member disgruntled at the IfA policy on wage minima to raise this matter through a motion or motions at the AGM in September and allow the wider membership to debate and vote on the matter. The fact that the individuals chose not to do so suggests that democracy was not top of their agenda

    Gerry Waits declares in his statement on this matter that representations made on this matter were accompanied by threats!! Again this is outrageous. It certainly does not appear to me to accord with democratic practice. IfA council should name the names of these people and consider instigating disciplinary action as it clearly in breach of the IfA Code of Conduct.

    If this debate is to be reported to Council and consideration made of the views of members on this matter can I request the following.

    1) IfA council call an Extraordinary General Meeting to discuss this affair and matters thus arising

    2) IfA council prepare proposals to be debated at that EGM clearly stating IfA policy on

    i) wage minima,
    ii) the IfA campaign to raise wage minima to that of comparable graduate professions,
    iii) the future role of RAOs within the organisation and
    iv) the IfA policy towards restricting archaeological practice to RAOs or Chartered Members

    I will also post a copy of this mail on the BAJRfed site to allow wider discussion of the points'
  5.  
    Hi Ken – great post – and Kevin’s too regarding the erosion of membership interests in the face of commercial pressure. There are a few things I’m unclear with and I’m hoping you can expand.

    You write that “The current problem is that there is not enough work out there to support the current supply-side” – but is this not also a problem with how our work is defined in the eyes of our clients? The majority of clients are focussed on time and cost and have no interest in the quality of the final product so long as it meets their statutory obligations. This is exacerbated because:

    ken whittaker wrote:
    …most archaeological employers, many ROs included, are committed to the central business proposition of squeezing cost to gain market advantage, with no regard to the underlying market economics and only limited investment in quality, as defined in a commercial sense…



    My question is really concerned with your second bullet point - the IFA’s aspirations to become the gateway to market.

    ken whittaker wrote:
    The effectiveness of such barriers is likely to be limited; however it presents the prospect of ‘institutionalising’ underlying business weaknesses, consigning members to long-term pay pressure.


    I have always been led to believe that a barrier to entry is a step towards solving both the quality issue and the pay issue, and am interested to hear why you don’t think this will be the case. If the IFA impose a barrier to entry on the market place, and limit this to a chartered/ROA membership, they can also enforce equitable pay scales for their membership. And by monitoring the quality of archaeological work, businesses ‘squeezing cost to gain market advantage’ will surely have to lift their game. Rather than the IFA address these problems, you suggest that the market can generate its own creative solutions:

    ken whittaker wrote:
    In terms of change, much depends on employers, and whilst recessions are not welcome, they do perhaps offer an opportunity to adjust business models. There are a wide range in operation, even within the historic environment sector, many offering a responsible and mature basis for business development that could prove far more sustainable.


    Are you saying that this is an opportunity for change, and the IFA is standing in the way of this by shoring up a fatally flawed system? What possible model could provide ‘responsible and mature basis for business development’ when faced with the basic reality that we have a client who doesn’t care what he’s buying as long as its cheap and entry level staff who don’t care how little they earn as long as it covers their cost?
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      CommentAuthorGnome King
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    diggingthedirt may be too fatalistic...

    "What possible model could provide ‘responsible and mature basis for business development’ when faced with the basic reality that we have a client who doesn’t care what he’s buying as long as its cheap and entry level staff who don’t care how little they earn as long as it covers their cost?"(diggingthedirt)

    That model would originate from those who are niether clients nor newbies - ie those who are Responisble and Mature within the proffesion.

    Clients DO care about quality, but it has to be presented to them - if they dont see it they wont value it - the tendering procces can result in the apparent devaluing and comoditisation of archaeology, therefore the value placed on it is tarnished, and real social value lost.

    entry level staff do/should/will care about the quality of experience they recieve ...
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      CommentAuthorChiz
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2009
     
    [quote=Kevin Wooldridge][/quote]
    Well said Kevin, I'd like to add my signature to that letter. In fact an open letter from IfA members (and non members) might be a good idea?

    By the way, the democratically elected council that is spoken of, guess how many votes there were for this years candidates?

    109!

    I would strongly urge all members of the IfA to write to council as a collective and individually to make their voice heard and call for an EGM. This undemocratic, premeditated attempt at a coup, backed up by 'threats', presumably to pull out of the RO scheme, is not acceptable within any organisation. As Kevin has said, the place to propose and debate any changes of this magnitude is the AGM, given that this was deliberately ignored, an EGM is the appropriate place.
    Council and membership agreed on the benchmarking scheme, and signed up to implementing a 13% increase in minima for the next three years, the events of last week were a premeditated attack on fair pay for archaeologists.

    Whose Ifa is it? Use your voice.
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      CommentAuthorBAJR Host
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2009
     
    what is being said here is perhaps proof of what this forum is designed for. remember that without it there would have been nowhere to announce or debate this. as kevin, chiz and others pont out, this can only be dealt with if people stop shrugging of responsibility for their future. if you are a corporate grade ifa member then it is your duty to stand for the future of archaeology. I am more than willing to help in whatever way is appropriate. this is not an ifa bash.. this perhaps highlights what the ifa could become.

    I know bajrs limits - often be called a one man dictatorship - however, I have been constant in my belief, open in my actions and honest. so for what its worth and leaving out my personal feelings I would offer the opportunities of communication that bajr holds to aid this support of an ifa committed to supporting fieldstaff. I can't as yet agree with other aspects of control given the current circumstances, but if you want an ifa that represents you, then trust and affirmative action is required. over to you
  6.  
    Thanks David. And Chiz. I agree that all IfA members have to make their feelings known to IfA council about this matter. They deserve our support for sticking to their guns so far, despite the fact that many must be under great personal pressure. Kathryn has agreed to collate responses made on the IFA Facebook group and I hope she will also take account of views raised in this forum/fora.
  7.  
    Chiz wrote: by the way, the democratically elected council that is spoken of, guess how many votes there were for this years candidates?

    109!

    I would strongly urge all members of the IFA to write to council as a collective and individually to make their voice heard and call for an EGM.



    It is hardly the fault of IFA's Council that 109 people voted at the last AGM. All their members were sent Council papers and voting forms (which were to be returned by post before the AGM, so not being able to go is not an excuse for not voting). These were also put on their website and reminders for people to send them in were posted too and people were also reminded through the various social networking media. Even here in Borsetshire we got our voting forms and paperwork!

    If people don't vote when it is made this easy for them, what else can you expect the IfA to do?


    BAJR Host wrote: what is being said here is perhaps proof of what this forum is designed for. remember that without it there would have been nowhere to announce or debate this.

    I don't agree with this. This is IfA business, and if you have an issue with it there are lots of ways to communicate with the IfA. You can write to Kathryn (who sometimes posts on here) or any of the Council members (also including some who post on BAJR), or indeed to the Chief Executive. It is perhaps understandable that the IfA has more time for the views of their members than for those who are not, especially those who chose not to engage in dialogue but instead to criticise them on an internet forum!

    They've already said on their Facebook forum that they are gathering responses from members to be sent to Council - who here has actually contacted them, rather than just whinging on here?


    BAJR Host wrote: this can only be dealt with if people stop shrugging of responsibility for their future.

    This is very true, and part of that is engaging in the democratic machinery of the IfA, and commenting through the correct channels. If you don't do either, then you can't expect your voice to be listened to, regardless of where you put it!
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      CommentAuthorChiz
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2009
     
    BrianAldridge wrote: It is hardly the fault of IFA's Council that 109 people voted at the last AGM....Even here in Borsetshire we got our voting forms and paperwork! ...If people don't vote when it is made this easy for them, what else can you expect the IfA to do?

    I wasn't saying that it was the council's fault, though I know of several members who didn't get their voting papers in time due to the postal strike. I got mine the day before the deadline so couldn't vote. I'd agree with you that if people don't vote/act then they bring events on themselves.

    BrianAldridge wrote: They've already said on their Facebook forum that they are gathering responses from members to be sent to Council - who here has actually contacted them, rather than just whinging on here?

    Well I have for a start. And will be writing to them again. As will be/have many colleagues.
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      CommentAuthorBAJR Host
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2009
     
    with a due respect Brian, stating this is IfA business and only IfA business is not quite true, as this decision would affect many many non-IfA staff as well. it is therefore everyones business. As to the comment about whinging on an internet forum... BAJR is a lot more than that. indeed it allows all views to be aired publicly, including yours, after all this is free speech. yes there is much critisism however there is also just as much praise and support. apart from that... this is highlighting why support is needed from wherever it comes. I am very glad to see your posts here that add to the discussion, perhaps its time to stop seeing bajr as the anti-IfA and rather as an alternative platform for deate for all archaeologists to use.

    correct channels and suchlike can unfortunately lead to a feeling of distance.

    I will reiterate, that I hope to help..not control.
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      CommentAuthorGnome King
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2009
     
    in the past it was The Institute FOR Archaeologists - the IFA, presuming it wants to represent the best interests UK of archaeology and archaeologists, should activley seek the views of major stakeholders (ie archaeologists whether members OR non-members) - BAJR is an (imho excellent) attempt to allow free disscusion for the interested community at large

    - while critiscism of organisations, such as the IFA, might occur in this forum, those organisation are not under threat from BAJR, unless those organisations are connected with significant upset for the community...
  8.  
    In fairness to Brian I think he made some good points. I am pleased that Chiz has articulated his views to the IfA, and I really hope that others will do so too. Yes an internet forum such as this is an excellent place to let off steam, but the IfA is not distant - they are bending over backwards to listen to everyone's views and if you just take the trouble to write in (or even comment on the Facebook page) - these views WILL be taken into account!
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      CommentAuthorUnitofOne
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2009 edited
     
    yes an internet forum not such as this is excellent but paul why whats your problem the ifa are nothing get over it they also smell bad realy musty what we want is a single super RAO with one great big dicktaker (like eh merged obviously with algayo)then the ifa will be happy no more members so happy