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Is archaeology using interns and is this and acceptable practice?
#51
Holy moly! I wasn't expecting all this when I put the comment :0.
I've been in commercial for a few years now and I must say I think I'm starting to notice a general increase in the use of a volunteer workforce. It is my concern that WA ( or any other unit under the sun for that matter) may see the as advertised 'Business Development and Marketing Internships' as a window of opportunity to try and roll it out in other departments. I would be very interested to get the opinion of either the IFA or Prospect on all of this.
This, after all isn't about one company, I think this could end up concerning all of us, paid, unpaid, employed, unemployed, contracted, permanent, specialist, everyone.
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#52
Unitof1 Wrote:as I said a tenner and you can wash my pot. But seriously how many volliiyretter worker employees who you dont pay should anybody have before you can call yourself an archaeologist. should there be some scale? Maybe an unemployed graduate should have between 5 and 10 before they can apply for practitioner.

Trouble is you have to have employers liability insurance to take on volunteers ( or so the insurance company told me) so they cost you inthe endWink
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#53
but if you are not employing them I might suggest that its not employers but possibly public liability (which most self emplyed are made to have by the council jobs worths) that you need and obviously you make them voliitteyers pay for that and add on worth while bit of commision...
Reason: your past is my past
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#54
archresearcher Wrote:I've only just come across this thread and think it's about time that these issues are being raised. I graduated in 2008 and then undertook a year long PG degree to make myself 'more appealing' to employers. I have since undertaken numerous volunteer roles/ 'voluntary work placements' to gain more skills and knowledge of various archaeological employment routes (not only commercial archaeology). During this time I have worked outside of the archaeology field because I have no other option, bills need paying and bank of mum and dad only goes so far (I should state that 3/4 years after gratuation I am still living with parents because I can't afford not to).

Last summer I accepted a Grampus Heritage placement to spend 2 months on excavation abroad to increase my digging skills and build towards that '6 months experience' threshold. To do this I had to give up my non-archaeological day job but since returning I have not been able to find work. So I gave up my source of income to improve my archaeology experience to land in a position worse than what I started with. I now have a CV that is considered 'very attractive' with a wealth of various voluntary positions making me a 'catch' to anyone wanting to take on volunteers but not to employ?
To me there should be paid intern positions offered not only by commerical units but also in other areas of archaeology so that graduates can have a chance to get a foot in the door because eventually people will move out of archaeology for better paid jobs or move into retirement but without training fresh graduates at the bottom end of the spectrum who will replace the specialists once they move on?

Yes, this is the unfortunate situation many archaeologists find themselves in. Too many candidates chasing too few jobs. It is especially common in times of limited archaeological work be it a recession, foot and mouth crisis or change in planning guidelines.

At the risk of sounding like one of those old timers harking on about the good old days.....(they weren't that good!) After my degree I was completely under-prepared for working in the commercial archaeological world. I ended up volunteering at a museum and then working as a pot-washer for a unit down south for 6 months before finally pestering the employer enough to be let out on site.....and only on a trainee rate at that.

It was only after working on a very large project for a year that I could get work elsewhere (I moved back up north). It took several months to get enough time logged with the local units to become a 'regular' then after some five years won a permanent contract.


Its only at times when there is a glut of work (road schemes, airport terminals, pipelines etc) and a lack of diggers (for instance after a recession period) that its easier to get work.

My career path has so far been very much a case of being in the right place at the right time, being mobile and flexible, luck and taking opportunities when they are presented (I missed plenty too though!).

Its no consolation, I know, but an archaeological career is tough and hard-won. Sacrifices have to be made.....its only now (after 15 years) that I am in a position to settle down more and put my needs before that of getting a job.

But then, nothing worthwhile is easy.
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#55
From my experience of volunteering in research and working in commercial archaeology there is a world of difference between the level of work expected. That is not to say volunteers don't work in research, I broke myself, but just that the voluntary nature meant you didn't have to. You wouldn't be able to do that on a commercial dig...well not keep the respect of your fellow workers. These companies make money and they should pay you. Your on site doing a bloody hard job, you should get paid. At the risk of getting a storm of angry responses here welding a mattock is not rocket science, neither is rolling a barrow or emptying a bucket. Do you think the companies have volunteers/interns in their tenders?! Maybe with hourly supervision rates...

The workfare programme is sick, conceived by a sick government taking advantage of vulnerable people. I know the examples details above aren't workfare but they soon will be. The various professional bodies and unionised labour should be stating their opposition to this and companies that use this practically enslaved labour should be boycotted. http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

Sad!
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#56
Might I suggest that in addition to the fears expressed here as to the potential spread of unpaid internships within the industry, there is another potential monster lurking.
Payment by results seems likely to lead to a more ruthless chasing of contracts by those ‘employed’ under such a system. Cold-calling of clients, disruption of and disregard for any existing linkages between local/regional units and clients, basically anything to tempt a potential client, so as to win a precious contract and claim a prize… sorry… wage. Or am I just being cynical as to where this may be heading?
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#57
Herne Wrote:Might I suggest that in addition to the fears expressed here as to the potential spread of unpaid internships within the industry, there is another potential monster lurking.
Payment by results seems likely to lead to a more ruthless chasing of contracts by those ?employed? under such a system. Cold-calling of clients, disruption of and disregard for any existing linkages between local/regional units and clients, basically anything to tempt a potential client, so as to win a precious contract and claim a prize? sorry? wage. Or am I just being cynical as to where this may be heading?

I'm as cynical as they come but I don't think that will really happen, mainly because the clients won't let that happen, they'll just go elsewhere. Advertising through a means other than just word-of-mouth may actually be of benefit to everyone though. I can't imagine units would have or be willing to spend that sort of money to get people doing cold-calling on a commission basis either. Has anyone actually seen this sort of thing happening?
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#58
TheKillerPenguin Wrote:I'm as cynical as they come but I don't think that will really happen, mainly because the clients won't let that happen, they'll just go elsewhere. Advertising through a means other than just word-of-mouth may actually be of benefit to everyone though. I can't imagine units would have or be willing to spend that sort of money to get people doing cold-calling on a commission basis either. Has anyone actually seen this sort of thing happening?

Seen it happening? Surely its almost all that has been happening over the past 20 years!! It's not the archaeological units who do the cold calling, but of course the consultants, who having gained the project than choose to 'tender' that work out to the profession or appoint their tame contractor. I can't see that situation changing much. Units who want to cut out the consultants may occassionally be successful, but I suspect the 'dark side' will ultimately prevail....
With peace and consolation hath dismist, And calm of mind all passion spent...
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#59
Fair point.
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#60
kevin wooldridge Wrote:Seen it happening? Surely its almost all that has been happening over the past 20 years!! It's not the archaeological units who do the cold calling, but of course the consultants, who having gained the project than choose to 'tender' that work out to the profession or appoint their tame contractor. I can't see that situation changing much. Units who want to cut out the consultants may occassionally be successful, but I suspect the 'dark side' will ultimately prevail....

i think you will find that some units spend a lot of time cold calling - chasing jobs through the local authority planning lists has become more than a dark art
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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