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28th October 2008, 05:46 PM
I am glad you brought up the Diggers Forum Hal... many thanks... though those on the Council are POs ...
The Living Wage Campaign ... I set up a site for them back in May, and we are still waiting for the go ahead from the IfA - as they worry it was a BAJR website.. which it is not.. I just bought the domain, paid for hosting created the blogsystem and then handed it over... these worries were allayed, by my explanation that it was not a BAJR website, but a Diggers Forum site... but there was unhappiness (perhaps) about an external site...
So I backed it with my time and money... perhaps another question to be asked of both the Diggers Forum and the IfA.. whats the delay
http://www.livingwage.co.uk
So yes the goal of the DF is to represent diggers... with a small uptake and a tightly controlled remit... it is hard.
perhaps anyone from the DF should comment... and in fact should be here and reading? The time thing? If you are going to campaign.. then you have to put in the extra hours.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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28th October 2008, 11:33 PM
Quote:quote: though those on the Council are POs .
no, not all of them are.
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29th October 2008, 12:28 AM
Oh come on. Is BAJR Host saying that the members of the committee of The Diggers' Forum don't meet with his approval? They were elected on to the committee of the Special Interest Group by its members, and the entire membership of the IfA elected candidates on to Council. Surely groups with constitutions and elections and accountability are democracy in action? In campaigning groups like The Diggers' Forum, members join the group because they ascribe to its broad goals. Then they get to vote on the members of the committee, and to agree upon and to get behind the group's strategy and tactics. Anyway, I'm sure that The Diggers' Forum doesn't need me to defend its democratic credentials here.
However I would like to reiterate my question about whether diggers have joined The Diggers' Forum: Quote:quote:If archaeologists posting here haven't joined the group, why not? Or am I being especially dim today?
Hal Dalwood
Bad archaeologist, worse husband
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29th October 2008, 10:38 AM
Quote:quote:Oh come on. Is BAJR Host saying that the members of the committee of The Diggers' Forum don't meet with his approval?
Did not see that comment Hal? :face-huh: Where did you read that bit? or did you read between lines? I am sure the DF don't need you to defend them... I have after all been working with them quite closely...and count many of them as personal friends.
As people have suggested in other threads.. perhaps you would contact them, as they are an IfA SIG. As far as I know, there are some 80+ members, most of whom are diggers.. and in fact I am a member to (I actually do dig, and do watching briefs and evals.. not direct them, but dig them .. so feel I can be a member).
You are right to ask why more people have not joined, but perhaps a bit off to suggest I don't approve of the committee of the DF. That is putting words into my mouth.... again.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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29th October 2008, 02:22 PM
Posted by Hal Dalwood: Quote:quote:If archaeologists posting here haven't joined the group, why not? Or am I being especially dim today?
Posted by BAJR Host: Quote:quote:As far as I know, there are some 80+ members, most of whom are diggers..
The impression given by many posts on this forum is that diggers are a large group of people who feel themselves to be badly treated by their employers, under-represented by the IfA and for whom little or no real action is taken by the IfA or anyone else. There are a lot of calls for 'action not words'.
Under those circumstances, it is pretty unimpressive to find that only 80+ diggers have bothered to join the Diggers' Forum. My own feeling is that any digger who posts grievances about under-representation and lack of action, but who does not join the DF, is really only interested in finding someone else to blame for their problems.
Before complaining about lack of representation and action, you should take the trouble to find out what representation there really is, and what action is really being taken.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
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29th October 2008, 02:41 PM
Quote:quote:Before complaining about lack of representation and action, you should take the trouble to find out what representation there really is, and what action is really being taken.
Here I cannot agree more.. for a fiver you can join the DF. and you don't even have to be in the IfA.. the reasons for such a low take-up must be found.. so I would love to hear from anyone who is not a member, is it becasue you do not know about it? Is it because you don't see the point? Is it becasue you can't be bothered? the question is why?? :face-huh: If you are not a member... why is that?
I do know that posters were sent out to every RO.. I have seen these posters in offices (I do get about -often in disguise [8D] )
Are you in an RO and have not seen the poster?
Were you aware of the group? etc..
BAJR supports the DF (and always has)
ps.. one thing people must remember is that the IfA is a membership organisation (unlike BAJR) and so, can't just make an instant descision or pronouncement without asking members first.... as that would go against the ethos of membership ... therefore, as the DF is an IfA SIG, it can't just say x,y & z without checking with the IfA first.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
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29th October 2008, 03:05 PM
...so I would love to hear from anyone who is not a member, is it becasue you do not know about it? Is it because you don't see the point? Is it becasue you can't be bothered? the question is why?? If you are not a member... why is that?
I'm not a digger anymore
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29th October 2008, 08:17 PM
The DF is indeed a good idea and broadly speaking, I support their endeavours. I didn`t join for two reasons, primarily because as a circuit worker, I would have found it difficult to attend meetings in person and, I was unsure as to the meat and two veg of the DFs "remit" in relation to the IFA proper. I agree without reservation that after years and reams of words, action is needed. Perhaps the IFA would consider hosting its own online discussion forum, this would allow for a broader brush of participants taking into consideration the wide geographical scattering of much of the workers in the game.This would perhaps mitigate against the view that the IFA are not listening and further, would be an ideal way to keep the muddy masses up to date with IFA endeavours. Any constructive dialogue is good dialogue and in this day and age where websites are the primary conduit for millions, surely such a forum would be an ideal tool. By the way, a big hello to everyone on BAJR and the very best of wishes from sunny Cyprus.
..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)
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29th October 2008, 09:58 PM
Addendum to my last.......
Have just spotted and joined the Facebook version of the IFA discussion/forum thingy. Not sure that the Facebook format will allow for the depth of dialogue likely but...I have to say that its a welcome development.....:face-huh:
..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)
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30th October 2008, 06:58 AM
Posted by BAJR Host:
Quote:quote:You are right to ask why more people have not joined, but perhaps a bit off to suggest I don't approve of the committee of the DF. That is putting words into my mouth.... again.
Clearly a misunderstanding by me, there. I thought that your comment: Quote:quote: I am glad you brought up the Diggers Forum Hal... many thanks... though those on the Council are POs ...
meant that because the members of Diggers' Forum elected to IfA Council this year were Project Officers, they were somehow unrepresentative of diggers as a whole. I hadn't known what posts were held by these individuals. Your comment about their employment seemed to me to imply criticism of their ability to represent diggers on Council.
You refuted my criticism, and clearly I was wrong to suggest that implication could be made. I apologise for misunderstanding your actual opinion. I would point out that misunderstanding what someone meant is not 'putting words into their mouth'.
Are we still on topic? Apologies if not.
Hal Dalwood
Bad archaeologist, worse husband
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