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9th December 2004, 06:42 PM
No you are right... a kangaroo court is not what is called for.
However evidence has been given - from a more trusted source and this has also been wiggled out of by said contractor.
What would be seen as Good evidence? A photograph with a newspaper date showing, with the name of the company clearly visible on a recognisable part of a site with a clear breach happening ....
Tricky... The promise is to change the procedure. I would hope that this happens soon - before credibility is stretched.
Perhaps a hotline where a breach could be reported... and a swift unannounced visit could be conducted to see it in person.
Hopefully these are isolated incidents and many are just misunderstandings.and honest mistakes... there is no reason to punish or parade the heads of management - but standards are required to be seen to be adhered to by those who write them, before those that are not in the IFA will come anywhere near.
Only the IFA are 'big' enough to act as 'our' representative - in
Pay (still poor pay levels out there)
Conditions (still people laid off and re-employed out there)
Futures (sickness, pensions, status of self-employed - paid as workers, treated as self employed)
Standards (creating standards is like herding eels as someone once said)
etc etc.
So ... where now
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14th December 2004, 11:09 PM
What do you think about a hotline to grass up??
How and who ??
David
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16th December 2004, 03:31 PM
Can't really see it doing much good. An anonymous rant cannot be acted upon, there are libel laws and whatnot.
Other professional bodies will react to a formal complaint if it is signed and gives details and dates of specific alleged offences. Procedural things (like an architect alleging that another architect has attempted to oust him - no really, I've seen it!) are dealt with by writing to the accused firm detailing the allegations without naming the complainant, and giving the chance to respond.
Obviously more serious things like naughty doctors and dentists goes before what is in effect a court, with full legal representation.
To be professional is all about integrity and the way you conduct yourself.
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16th December 2004, 09:55 PM
Heres the deal....
you phone IFA or BAJR and tell us of a breach
you give us your details and we verify by calling you back
we phone the curator and tell them
the curator does a spot check visit
job done...Curator can then lodge a formal complaint with either the IFA or.. take the actions that are available to a county council!!
If it is a false alarm... we know where it came from!
problem??
BAJR
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16th December 2004, 09:56 PM
Heres the deal....
you phone IFA or BAJR and tell us of a breach
you give us your details and we verify by calling you back
we phone the curator and tell them
the curator does a spot check visit
job done...Curator can then lodge a formal complaint with either the IFA or.. take the actions that are available to a county council!!
If it is a false alarm... we know where it came from!
problem??
BAJR
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17th December 2004, 06:45 PM
Getting there!
I know I sound horribly negative about all this, but I'm not really!
So the curator nips round and finds the contractor doing (or not doing) what he shouldn't (or should). Maybe he's IFA registered, maybe he's not. If so Mr/Ms Curator can phone the IFA, if not, it might get tricky. The contract which the naughty contractor is in breach of is between him and the developer, presumably. The developer has a direct relationship with the curator via his playmates in the planning department.
I'm just thinking what happens if it gets nasty and legal/contractual (there's money involved!). The curator needs to be tough, and needs the back up of the planning department as a whole.
Or am I just too suspicious/cynical?
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19th December 2004, 02:39 PM
As one of dem curator chappies (hey everyone has a hobby) I am tough... work has to be carried out to a minimum spec decided by teh curator... therefore... any IFA reg organisation would get reported to the IFA... (though a certain company that was about to reported (see the digger) actually removed itself from RAO status a couple of weeks before the complaint went in....Nice!!
anyway I digress.......... If a company works within a county and repeatedly fails to meet standards set by the Curatorial service... we are entitled to reject work (or stop it if Health and safety is involved by informing the enforcement officer) and keep rejecting it until it is done as per the specs. This could cost teh developer / contractor a lot of extra cash... so quite quickly the word goes round...and either the contractor makes changes and becomes not just cheap but effective otherwise... no work as what mug of a developer will take on a contractor that although says they will do the job for thruppence... will always get pulled up and end up costing the developer an arm and a leg??
So hotline is a first step.... perhaps attatched to a mass penance and admission that things have got a bit pear shaped and the goal of archaeology has been subsumed into the need for profits and management targets. This will also affect things like wages and conditions... if you employ a student to runan evaluation... then the chances of this going belly up will increase... so employ people wisely and pay decent wages... and hey presto (well hopefully) work is done better by motivated people who are of a suitable level of competance and everyone wins...
a utopia!
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19th December 2004, 09:22 PM
So really it's all down to curators ensuring that work is carried out to spec.
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20th December 2004, 11:29 AM
Sadly.... and with a bit of grumbling on our part... yes....
When in teh 1990s NPPG16 came in it was supposed to create two separate streams.... Contractors who carried out the work and Curators who evaluate and check the work.... This has remained in some counties a bit of a grey area... where some Curators even share the same phone line as the contracting arm.... I personally would never work as a contractor in my own county as I feel hte words conflict of interest come in to play...
"So BAJR... have you done the work to the correct level"
"Yes I have BAJR"
"Thats good BAJR"
"Yes it is "
"Job Passed then"
etc
The IFA are a relatively small organisation in terms of staffing... and so if a complaint or whatever comes in about a Unit in the North of England or Scotland... only a Curator is close enough and has enough clout to go and investigate.
Now here we can diverge and ask who watches the watchers..?
ALGAO ?? IFA??? standards??? Complaints?? etc etc.
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20th December 2004, 03:12 PM
A true profession would have a true professional governing body who would govern professionals professionally.... I think.
Unfortunately a closer parallel than between archeology and the professions is between contacting archaeology the construction industry, than with the professions. That is, a construction firm maintains a small permanent management staff, and perhaps a handful of site managers, as salaries staff, and site personnel are all subcontracted for individual jobs. Some labourers and semi-skilled staff wil be hired via agencies for specific sites. All non-management staff will be laid off at the end of the job and of course at Christmas... sound familiar? Contracts are won by competetive tender, cheapest wins whatever "quality markers" or other buzzwords are bandied about from time to time.
A professional will always give the best possible impartial advice to the client but will always act to the wider and greater good, even when that goes against the client's interest of that of the professional concerned.
