benefits from a Professional Organisation

[Dirty Boy]

[quote]Originally posted by trowelhead

To play a good game and not just talk it.. actions speak louder than words!

Exactly right.

I'd like to feel the IFA actually has some relevance to me as a memeber of the lower eschelons. I get the feeling (probably incorrecty) that its a big boys club.

While training bursaries are more than welcome I get annoyed by the little things.

Having a list of people to vote for in elections without really knowing who they really are.

And the general waste of receiving guidelines in the post on Maritime Archaeology & Heritage Manangement. I'm a superviser (still a digger at heart!) and have absolutely no interest or involvement in these areas, so why bother sending them to me? To me it smacks of an organisation that hasn't thought things through properly.

And whilst it's nice to get all fields in Heritage integrated, why not sort out the ones you've got already rather than adding more to the general mess?

[Paul Belford]

quote:And the general waste of receiving guidelines in the post on Maritime Archaeology & Heritage Manangement. I'm a superviser (still a digger at heart!) and have absolutely no interest or involvement in these areas, so why bother sending them to me?

Unfortunately it is precisely this sort of attitude that prevents us from developing as a coherent heritage profession.

For all of us there are of course areas of archaeology that do not interest us, or in which we are not presently involved. Many of us still remain "a digger at heart". However a professional person should always try to make him or herself aware of developments in their own and related fields. Maritime archaeology does have relevance to terrestrial archaeology (waterlogged timber structures - a wharf perhaps?, or a structure made of 'ballast bricks'?). Heritage management is, in a sense, what we all do. The way in which your site is being excavated will have been partly determined by someone who deals with 'heritage management' somewhere along the line.

So it is important to be kept aware of how these other branches of the historic environment sector work and operate. Presumably you would like the historic environment consultant who is managing the project on behalf of the client who pays your wages to at least be aware of some of the issues involved with extracting data from archaeology on the ground? In which case it seems only fair that you have some understanding of the parameters within which they have to operate.

If you genuinely have no interest in these aspects then the polarisation of the profession between "diggers" and everyone else will only continue - to the detriment of the personal and professional development of the "digger".

[Oxbeast]

I quite agree, Mr Belford. I always objected to being called a digger when I was one. I would rather be called an archaeologist, and respected as one. The digger is the big yellow machine that we use to remove the overburden. Still, its slightly better than the American "shovelbum".

Of the ideas referred to above, I particularly like the integration of existing standards with existing heritage organisations, and the idea of independent arbitration of disputes. Is there an ethics committee? Could the IFA use the services of ACAS?

[trowelhead]

Now I dont want to play devils advocate here or anything but hey its a forum so here goes...

I began in archaeology profesionally in 1998 with Oxford archaeology on the CTRL scheme at Thurnam Roman Villa. I was payed ?13500 per anum pro rata and was on a 6 month rolling contract, I was payed holiday again pro rata and was given accomodation and ?60 a week living expenses.

Now other than government led legislation on part time or contract working relating to pay, sickness, holiday and wage related inflation etc how has the IFA "directly" improved my lot and I mean real benefits that where not available to me then, in 10 years what have I gained as an individual to improve my ability to gain a house a pension and a non poverty wage off the back of the IFA and I dont want to hear about surveys, conferences or any other PFJ tpye meetings.:face-huh:

quick quick ... not all at once....!!!

Close enough for a country job!

[peteraf]

Referring to the original question what I would expect from a professional organisation is that it embraces all branches of that profession equally. I would also expect it to develop communication between members of that profession so that we understand what the other person is saying. Thinking of communication that makes me think of training standards and content. I would expect my professional body to be in direct contact with educational providers to make sure that people undertaking training came out of it with the information needed to perform effectively. And as to its attitude to its members it is there to serve me the member after all I am paying the wages.

[1man1desk]

Posted by Trowelhead:

quote:how has the IFA "directly" improved my lot and I mean real benefits that where not available to me then, in 10 years what have I gained as an individual to improve my ability to gain a house a pension and a non poverty wage off the back of the IFA and I dont want to hear about surveys, conferences or any other PFJ tpye meetings

This is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to earlier. These are issues for a union, not a professional association. The IFA can't be both - it has to be one or the other.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[peteraf]

I think that there could be a bit of an overlap on the point of pay. The professional Association should be discussing policy on long term pay and conditions but the union should be directly involved in the short term.

[peteraf]

I think that there could be a bit of an overlap on the point of pay. The professional Association should be discussing policy on long term pay and conditions but the union should be directly involved in the short term.

PS I seem to be having a prob posting knowing my luck this will now turn up about three times.

[BAJR Host]

quote:Is there an ethics committee?

Was working on it before my.. er.. situation changed.. though I have offered to continue working with the IFA Council on this (though others would have to be involved.. such as ALGAO SCAUm etc)

As to separation of church and state (or Union and Prof Organisation) I agree... and overlap is inevitable - The 'Management', Councils, national Organisations should have a means of central negotiations...

Please see the new APPAG thread. IMPORTANT





"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Dirty Boy]

Mr Belford - excellent point. I'd never really thought of Maritime Guidelines having that sort of info in them. It's my case of a bad knee jerk reaction to a heading on a piece of paper!

I certainly agree the profession has to move as a whole and include all heritage dsiciplines, but I feel that information and services need to be more targeted.

I think my main problem is getting lots of letters through and services that I don't really feel are relevant. While standards and ethics guidelines are much needed and well worth persuing, it's difficult to not feel like your specific needs aren't being met when you're struggling on low pay, crap conditions, no training and wondering where your next job is coming from. As others have said, these problems have been going on for years and there "appears" to be no real movement on these issues.

I suppose what it does come down to is that the IFA can't be both a union and a governing body.

What I'd really like is value for money. I'm being asked for a membership fee of over ?100 and a lot of the benefits - jobs list, magazine, list of archaeology contacts are already being done superbly by Mr BAJR on his laptp for free. Being asked to the IFA conference is great, but it's a huge sum of money for me.

I think the IFA should really have a "rep" in the larger units. We've got a guy in work in the IFA higher escehlons and it's great to talk to him and find out exactly what is going on and why. He makes a good case for joining and this should be carreid through. MAKE me want to join.

At the moment I just feel its a bit faceless and that the personal benefits for over ?100 aren't worth it. To the profession, i think its been great, however.

Leading a crack team of archaeologists in the hunt for death or glory.

No-one's died yet and I think we lost the glory down the back of the sofa.....