Tuition fees and the future of fieldwork

[Real Job]

quote:I believe that the NI I am currently paying goes to the current crop of pensioners

And so it is in the sense that there is not some big pot of money equivalent to your personal NI contributions locked away in avault with your name attached.

However, the NI you are paying also means that you should be entitled to an old age with a reasonable standard of living, just as the NI paid by the 'baby boomers' means that they are entitled to their pensions now.

Its the government that wants to break the conceptual link between money paid now and our future pensions, so that they can get away with breaking the social contract that is the basis of the state pension. If they can drive a wedge between the generations and convince us that we are shouldering the burden of current pensioners, they will be able to cut our provision for the future more easily.

I think your position plays into their hands: My position is that just as the current pensioners have paid for their pensions and therefore are entitled to them, so we are paying for ours and ought to be entitled to them in the future.

The baby boomers may be causing a problem right now, but in the third richest country (thanks in part to the labour of those same 'baby boomers') in the world we can find a solution that does not involve cutting the state pension provision.

[mercenary]

Real Job, I completely agree, but I suppose my cynicism stems from the rampant sell off of the welfare state and neoliberal values that have infected the western world. I wish I could be as idealistic about state pensions, but for perhaps the first time I think I'm being realistic instead.

[wire]

Hi guys,

First of all i just want to say i have not stupied or taken part in any Archaeology work at all, but am applying to uni for the Archaeology course.

the reason im posting here, is because of your conversation on field work, from what i have read its the lowest paid job of them all, but thats what interests me the most is the field, its what draws me to this course and Archaeology altogether.

i just wanted to say that, because some of us do have some passion and would work hard at this.

Thanks guys

Will

[mercenary]

Will, passion is the essential pre-requisite for work in archaeology, so you are off to a good start.

[rachstebbs]

We all have passion for the job, (why else would you work in the freezing cold and rain?!) but it would be nice to get a decent wage. Things do seem to be improving, I'm just praying it carries on so that once I graduate, (and stop working for free on placement and for experience!) I'll be able to live comfortably!!

[1man1desk]

Originally posted by Real Job:

quote:Its the government that wants to break the conceptual link between money paid now and our future pensions, so that they can get away with breaking the social contract that is the basis of the state pension.

I don't hold any brief for the government (never been a Labour supporter), but hasn't Gordon 'Prudence' Brown just made a commitment to restore the link between earnings and pensions, thereby significantly enhanceing the pensions of future retirees?

I think the idea is that by making the commitment now to do this in a few years, it becomes 'affordable'. Bear in mind that Prudence expects to be Prime Minister at the time.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[mercenary]

It's all well and good making promises for 2012 (when the link is to be restored), but that assumes Labour winning the next election. No easy feat in light of their current problems. Will the Tories fulfill a labour commitment when they removed the link to earnings in the first place? I doubt it.

Merc (Never been a 'New' Labour supporter)

[Real Job]

Its a slightly different issue from the one I was trying to get at, but yes (under tremendous pressure to follow the Turner Report in full) they have decided to re-institute the link between pensions and earnings.

Of course, by delaying until 2012, the pension will have fallen even further behind what it would have been if the link was never got rid of in the first place. By that time, the pension would probably need to be increased anyway to save on the cost of clearing the bodies of pensioners who couldn't afford to eat off the streets.

Even this slight benefit has an edge: The pension age will be raised to 68 by 2050. In the 21st century and being the third wealthiest country in the world, shouldn't we be reducing the pension age instead of taking this retrograde step?

I think I'm right in saying that the Tories have agreed to all this, so they are unlikely to overturn it, which incidentally shows how radical it isn't.

[mercenary]

quote:The pension age will be raised to 68 by 2050.

Surely by 2050 medical advancements will enable us all to be supermen/women, living long beyond our allotted 3 score and 10 years. I love my job so much that I want to live and work till I'm 1000! Stuff the youngsters trying to get my job, I'll be digging ditch sections till I'm 980.

[1man1desk]

quote:The pension age will be raised to 68 by 2050. In the 21st century and being the third wealthiest country in the world, shouldn't we be reducing the pension age instead of taking this retrograde step?

Certainly not!

When the present pension age was set, it represented roughly average life expectancy, so retirees were only a small number relative to the working population, and wouldn't claim their pension for many years. Nowadays we live much longer, so retirees are a much higher proportion of the population and claim for much longer.

It doesn't matter how good the pension system is, and whether it is 'funded' or paid for out of general taxation; if there are not enough people working to generate the wealth to pay the penions, the system will collapse. This is not an idealogical point, just a practical reality.

In other words, if you end up with the same number of retirees as working people - then each working person is effectively paying the full pension of an individual retiree.

The only solution is to raise the retirement age, or shoot all retirees on their 75th birthday.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished