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Time Team Down Under
#21
quote.

"Comrade Austin you are guilty of attacking the World Wide Movements (brown and splondgy) of Trotskyist Cows for surely you realise that the renegade group of Red Devons were long ago expelled from the W.W.M.T.C (Fourth International Group (Four legs good [3 somewhat awkward] and these exiles now hide out on Dartmoor and in engage in Ultra left-wing cud chewing.

When you said

"If you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow, you need buttermilk and cheese and an equilateral chainsaw. Half Man Half Biscuit"

you gave yourself away, for the majority of revolutionary cows (and infact a growing number of sheep) now argue

"If you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow, you need buttermilk and cheese and an equilateral chainsaw. Half Man Half Biscuit and fresh grass for all",

All I can say is that don't be surprised if when you next pass a field a chill goes up you spine and you turn to find Comrade Daisy looking at you!

I wouldn't like to be in your shoes (green wellies would be better)for once a cow is annoyed they will revolt and stand for hours chewing and fluttering their eye lashes at you....."

Arthus, I'll have an ounce of whatever it is that you're smoking. Smile

If you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow, you need buttermilk and cheese and an equilateral chainsaw. Half Man Half Biscuit
Reply
#22
I'd be happy with a quarter!

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Reply
#23
That's a heartwarming account Arthus, completely off-topic but it's a really interesting bit of modern british history that should be on the national curriculum, in my opinion. Following your last post, I am prepared to accept that you didn't mean any harm and to move on.

Back on topic, my mate in Perth made some comments. He's extremely dyslexic, so I've edited this a bit, hopefully without any change in meaning:

Upon arrival in Perth, I came with what I thought was a broad minded view of Aboriginals and their issues. ... This was slowly eaten away by the continual questioning as to why the many Aboiginals that lived in Perth did not help them-selves. Basically, the vast majority were piss humbuggers "to coin the phrase", though not all. I have interacted with many sound of mind and sober Aborigines. Either way, the majority seems to have a social difficulty of sorts. This questioning as to why continued until I considered that great belief of "Self-help", strongly ingrained the British Psyche. I recall it was a Victorian thought (though I may be wrong)...

[section cut in which he agrees that the 'capitalist mindset' is very different to Indigenous Peoples' thinking]

...The interesting thing I see now is that much pro-Aboriginal activism is coming for the white population, not the indigenous peoples. The propaganda that I have watched or read indicates that activism 40 years ago for the rights of Aborigines to vote came from a mixed group of white and black. Where is the black voice now? Yes, there is a handful of black voices and much credit is given to them. Though, to me, there needs to be much more.

Since it seems that there is a such a low proportion of Aborigines in power or interested in indiginous issues, they are leaving it up to the the non-indiginous peoples to push to issues. Beside, since there are so many other probems of basic health, water and food that effect many Aboringenes in their daily lives, why should they bother with some polictial stuff that is going on in an area 100's of kilometers away?

Should we leave it up to the Aborigines to deal with there problems or should they be given a helping hand? To give an analogy: sometimes one's life may get so difficult one cannot see a way forward; then it is up to a friend to help you see some light. Perhaps a rather poor example, though I think you get the idea.

In respects to indigenous Archaeology, I understand that many Elders would prefer that their stories and sacred sites never be handed over to the government and non-indiginous bodies. Well, it is they property and the right to do so. Many non-indiginous peoples would perhaps think that a little short-sighted, however there are other Aborigines that think such knowledge should be passed on to the government or to more sensitive bodies for the protection and conservation of sites and knowledge. Perhaps an example to surport this is: if it was not for the indegenous and scientific communitees involved in the Barrup Penisula, information about the issues about Woodside and the rock art there would never have been brought to light.

Interestingly, there is discussion by the new government that Rudd will say "Sorry" and there is talk of compension. In what form this compensation will come, if at all, is not known yet. Perhaps, in the form of cash to families/communities effected or as a fund set up to drive some well-structured plans (with elders'/representatives' involvement) to help tackle this multitude of issues that face the indegious populations. Whether Rudd will set in place some well-positioned/thoughtful step forward to help deal with these issues is still to be seen. It is still early days. I am hopeful. Besides, I believe it was time for Howard and the liberal/national coalision to move on. I think that was a good step


Amen to that last point. A few things to consider there, particularly about ownership and use of knowledge.
Reply
#24
I was trying from the begining to suggest that archaeologists and historians need to link the past with the present.

Hence, raising Rottnest is not just in the past but in the 'Here-and-Now' (See Stanner's 'White Man got no Dreaming' for how this might relate to Aboriginal Dreaming philosophy, or a famous man in Perth Joseph Lyons who in the 1840's predicted that the great, great, great grandchildren of the 1829 on, white settlers would curse what their ancestors had done to Aboriginal people) since the lack of knowledge and publicity about how it was used is a block to reconcilliation now.

the length of my reply about Cabble Street was simply to hammer the point home that 1.It wasn't a few people standing on a bridge 2. People were well aware and fight facism long before Toms 'ten years later' 3. At this means that uncovering the past has a huge impact on fighting predjudice in the 'here-and-Now'4. Archaeology is hugely political etc, etc, its very clear to me and I'm surprised its clear to others.

In Perth as in every Australian cities there are drunken Aboriginal people in the Parks.

One has to look back how the 'Irish' were potrayed by the press in England in the 19th Century. The same steriotypes and cartoons based on a people at the bottom of society, the same claims of inability to take drink etc.

Its poverty.

One of the annoying things about Howard sending the troops into the remote Aboriginal communities is not that there is not a problem with substance abuse and child abuse, there is.

However, and this can be equally true of the demonising of the Travellers in Ireland or of honour killings highlighted amongst some migrant communities in the UK.

Without deminishing the particular problems of any one community the fact is substance abuse, child abuse, violence against women etc, are infact massive problems which cut across all classes.

As a community psychiactric nurse I see this because I enter rich and poor homes and statistically it can be checked out on the Australian ABS web site (government stats).

Down and out crime is very visible and Aboriginal down and outs are very vissible in parks leading to many people without a full understanding of the causes leads people to say "why can't THEY help themselves"

In fact the biggest and most dangerous problem we face (as I suspect everywhere in the world) is Methamphetamine because of its price its more likely that I will be killed by a dropped out rich UWA law student than a drunk Aboriginal person down from Darwin.

Unfortunately the lessons of history (such as prohabition) are only remembered by some.

Everyone despairs at the 'Aboriginal Problem' [sic] in Australia but if any government was to simply copy Canadian and New Zealand policies (and not for one minute am I sugesting that these societies are perfect!) we might too as has occurred in these countries reduce the white Indigenous gap from 20 to 9 years difference.

Archaeology/history, the evidence from the past even recent past can help us today.

How does this relate to archaeology look at substance abuse amongst Indigenous people throughout thye world and how the frontier colonisation of Australia was fueled by T-totalised who survived on Morphine based none alcoholic beverages, opium, Aboriginal pitturi when they could get it and etha (sicne no where in the Bible was Etha bad mouthed!).

In Australia we have random testing for drink and driving, they were going to bring in Random drug testing in the same way. However, they pulled back from that and have simply targeted people going to clubs.

Shame really I'd like to see a check of everyone in the high court, since the Meth and cocaine would test high with the legal proffession...

Also an examination of former gold-rushes both here and the US are very informative.

But now I suspect the smart money ourght to be researching the archaeology of economic collapse since around every Australian city there were places where people survived the 1930s by hunting (rabbits, Kangaroos, Fish) and gathering (native plants and rich people garbage).

Australia has a proportionally very high number of Aboriginal activists and even higher numbers of higherly political artists

See

http://www.artgallery.wa.gov.au/collecti...morgan.pdf

for example.

But instead of listing a load of names I will ask some of my Aboriginal activist friends to read these postings.

Finally, Tom you seemed to have missed my question, an oversite I'm sure.

So one more time

"Tom please explain excatly what you meant by

"Considering where you're starting from you'll get nowhere if you appear to be laying the sins of the past at the feet of white Australians today." "

The saddest thing about all this debate is that the only other Australians who have commented on either this debate [at time of writting]seem to have been sensitive fraggile individuals who have simply got angry that a Citizen who was not born in Australia (and in particular a winging Pom) has rhe gall to criticize their wonderul country and have not discuused the institunalised racism which is so apparant here.

Let me make very clear this is not my experience of the majority of white archaeologists.

But just think, if a foreign born British citizen archaeologist put the boot in about the many examples of racism which exist in Britain would Tom or HOST get the hump and make comments more based on the ethinc origins of the person criticising?

No I really don't think they would even think of that angle, instead they would have joined in the attack on racism, possibly (though I doubt it) using nicer language than that terrible rude arthus...

And in the spirit of that crass rude bugger, its Australia Day on Saturday ("Australia, Australia we love you") and I'm thinking of burning an Aussie flag on the foreshore of the Swan River....

Not really...

Anyway, I will contact my Aborinal friends and ask them to read these posting and comment if they have time and I can't guarantee if they will have time because the archaeologist I know may be uncontactable in the bush and my main source of info is leading the fight against 'our' Labor governments appeal of the highly significant Perth Urban land Claim.




Arthus
Reply
#25
If you really wanted input by Australian archaeologists and Indigenous reps then why havent you posted any of this on any Australian sites such as the Archweb mailing list (link below)? Surely this would be the best way to get your voice heard and get local input.

mailto:Ausarch-l@anu.edu.au
http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/ausarch-l
Reply
#26
Because I can't work out how to use it. I've tried using it but every thing seems to bounce back.

You comment "If you really wanted input.." seems to imply that I don't. What do you think I'm a shrinking violate!

Posts the link for me please, I'll try too.

It would be get more Australian and Indigenous comment since I know of lots of Australians who are more angry and vocal than me.

Someone must be reading this one in Australia anyway since I've had so many text messages from archaeologists here asking "How are you Steve?" from archaeologists I hardly know and met at conferences etc.

And from the body language (I'm a psychiactric nurse and quite good at picking up such non-verbal signs) of some people I have met in Perth I know they must have heard something.

But probably distorted.

Before returning to Perth I worked two years in Yorkshire and used this site extensively when debating stuff about Thornborough Henge so am familiar and was already a member of this site.

I had thought Ausarch was more about work but as I said tried to use it but was confounded by the technology, but I'll try again now.

Lest anybody suspects I'm affraid of upseting anyone, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Or geting a job. Well, I'm still waiting for my dissertation results but after a year of torment with the studies, I'm thinking of staying with psychiatric nursing and working the archaeology into it as community archaeology in a few years time.

Because in the 'Here-and-Now' finding an Aboriginal person somewhere to sleep in Perth seems a useful thing to do and I'm lucky to have such a job. I also like all the contact with Aboriginal people.

I think all would aggree that white and black hardly get a chance to meet socially in our society, to me very similar to the situation for Catholic and Prottestant in Northern Ireland.

Further, on a selfish note I don't think the loads of Jobs is going to last more then a year.

I think the 2008 Crash will result in the dramatic end of the boom, in fact I'm going try and put a $100 bet on that house prices will fall in Perth by over 30% (I really think over 50% but I'm being cautious)within the next few years.

This crash will be terrible but at least the Kimberley might escape minning for a few years...

Arthus
Reply
#27
fair point

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Reply
#28
Tom please explain excatly what you meant by

"Considering where you're starting from you'll get nowhere if you appear to be laying the sins of the past at the feet of white Australians today."

OK, just to lay this point to rest:
This is a pragmatic point, not an ideological one. To put it another way, if you wish to demonstrate the value of a way of life that is alien to a bunch of people, it'd be easier if you don't (intentionally or unintentionally) insinuate that they are at fault.
Reply
#29
What so special about TT? Nothing. They you go. Worked with them a few times and did not enjoy the experience one bit I know quite a few archaeologists feel the same about TT and swore never to work with them. Yes, TT has brought archaeology into the public eye which is great news but what it fails is that archaeologists live in B&B, work in nasty weather all year long, contacts are temporary base, if you have no experience on a excavation when you leave uni it hard trying to find that job, and archaeologists have to get along with each other since they see each other day in and when they go back to the B&B.

TT has over the years took a bashing from all sides but it funny how protected sites all of a sudden can get excavated by a TV programme when any other archaeologists has to get funding may be money involved. But since TT think that a three day dig can explain what a place might have looked like we be all out of a job.

Please don't get me wrong the other archaeology (older and experience ones) are great and much of the work gets jump on by a bunch of armatures who like to think that archaeology is easy and pretend to be archaeologists and now they all become archaeologists on TT forum.

Nothing new in ignoring people happens as people have this tendency to put on email contact us, when you do you get no response at all much like the post. May be you should write to channel 4 who will ignore you have you try a phone call you might as well. I suggest that channel 4 should sell you the whole TT programme if you like it in your country then you can send us some more know all armatures who can excavated a sites putting those who have worked hard in life out of work more great news.
Reply
#30
Yes, but its the concept which is good.

For all its faults and I totally accept your criticism, I was away for a few years in Japan and Australia and when I briefly returned to the UK I was pleasantly surprised to find my sisters kids wanting to be archaeologists and collecting bits of clay pipe from the garden.

Very often TV shows are copied in different countries and work well.

This whole thread began when I just thought, why doesn't an archaeology department of a University in Australia contact the ABC or the SBS (Australia's BBC and Chanel 4, TT is on the ABC) with such an idea.

I'm just giving the idea away really, although if it took off I would mind a spot giving a nice balanced veiw of Perth...

But I'm not so kean on running across camera and jumping in to Devil's Lair which is altogether to deep a hole

Arthus
Reply


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