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Now VATs an interesting subject
#31
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Unitof1

Thanks old girl. I can see how to pay vat and how it works in the book keeping sense, but I am interested in the exemptions such as book writing, educational, research and also as a product required by local authorities. If one archaeologist can dig a hole without vat why cant all the rest of us. These exemptions are legitimate and have been utilised by various archaeologists in various circumstances. If you like it, goes along with my current Ice coc theme, which for the vat angle is that: archaeologists turns up on a landowners site (archaeology owners site) and says yes I can do the work and that will be 15% on top as well, for the government. To my way of thinking this makes the owner of the archaeology a little bit sad (15%) and I worry that it might make that owner a little bit not liking archaeology and archaeologists and then it might make that land owner very interested in panning and podsolisation and improving their land and what with fertiliser being very expensive, all of a sudden, the landowner is very very interested in sub-soiling


These are fair points, to some extent and assuming I follow it all properly, but I can't imagine many cases where someone is going to be able to go to said landowner, do the work and not charge VAT. The excemptions are quite specific as far as I know but I certainly don't know what they all are. It would be a lot easier if all archaeological work was VAT excempt, and arguably there is no reason why it shouldn't be (especially if carrying out archaeological work is in itself enough to count as charitable, even when done under the most commercial of circumstances - discuss.) It can't contribute that much to the VAT man's coffers in real terms, although I don't suppose those who currently have a cost advantage in some circumstances because they are not VAT registered would be overjoyed at the prospect. After all, there are certain cases where teaching as an externally contracted lecturer is VAT exempt, as I learnt today.
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#32
I might be over joyed if I didn?t have to charge VAT and could claim all the input vat back as in the case of zero rated. In the case of the externally contracted lecturer VAT exempt being education, that you learnt today, you cant claim back any input vat but for those constructing new domestic residences they are zero rated and if they get a ?68000 excavation do I /don?t I charge/register VAT and claim back my input vats or do I get to not charge vat but claim back the inputs.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPorta...3#P72_5874

Maybe archaeologists and their federations/institutions should lobby the powers that be, for archaeologists to be zero rated as an industry, I mean whats the difference between archaeology on a new dwelling site and an extention?

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#33
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Unitof1

I might be over joyed if I didn?t have to charge VAT and could claim all the input vat back as in the case of zero rated. In the case of the externally contracted lecturer VAT exempt being education, that you learnt today, you cant claim back any input vat but for those constructing new domestic residences they are zero rated and if they get a ?68000 excavation do I /don?t I charge/register VAT and claim back my input vats or do I get to not charge vat but claim back the inputs.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPorta...3#P72_5874

Maybe archaeologists and their federations/institutions should lobby the powers that be, for archaeologists to be zero rated as an industry, I mean whats the difference between archaeology on a new dwelling site and an extention?

On the earlier thing, yeah sorry. The stuff about zero rating that you were discussing was posted whilst I was writing my bit and after writing it I couldn't bear to delete it!

I think the above link talks about 0% VAT for qualifying residential new build, not all. I don't know what the qualification is, but I take your point that, in those circumstances, you might get away with an arguement for zero rating on that job. But you'd still have to be VAT registered and do the paperwork.

Personally I think having to be an unpaid tax collector is a pain in the behind. I am also getting to the stage where I'm objecting to paying parts of next years (self assessed) tax bill 'up front', based on this years. There may be a WEENY difference between the two. I want what little money I have in MY bank account, not HMRCs. However, when I suggested (in a training course) that if I had paid too much up front HMRC could pay me interest when I got it back, I was greeted with a frosty silence......

So, telling myself :face-topic: - perhaps it is worth asking if VAT is chargeable on zero rated developments (whatever they are). If it turns out that this is something that hasn't been looked at and should be happening more often than it is, maybe we can ask people with access to financial advisors etc to look into it?
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#34
It's a fair point but I doubt archaeologists would be able to persuade anyone either way. I had a look at the HMRC stuff about building and what was exempt and it doesn't seem particularly straight forward - some stuff about building for charities, communal buildings, and, interestingly approved work on a Listed Building or SM. Does that mean if someone had to have a building recording or watching brief carried out on either type of site as a requirement of an approved alteration that could be VAT rated 0%? Similarly, in some of the cases mentioned above could it not then be included in as part of the construction? What about a company that carried out construction and archaeological work too? What happens with other work though? If you were doing electrical work on as part of rennovation or building which was otherwise rated 0% could you do the same? Given the occassional debate on this thread and elsewhere about what is or isn't the case with charities compared to companies etc (although I can't say that I can find any certain differences) it would be a lot easier if archaeological work was simply rated 0%.
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#35
Old girl I got caught short by the on account tax rip off a few years ago and I did not like it one bit. To tell the truth I would like to know the history of it as self assessment, started 1996 as I understand it and is massively expanding in numbers of people using it every year, but has not been around that much (particularly for archaeologists) and this payment on account and balancing stuff seems like a made up way to take money off people before they have worked out if they have earned (earnt) it particularly as we are still stuck with a extremely primitive and totally unfair yearly cycle accounting system (I blame Stonehenge)

I found this comment on the subject
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/tax/d...52143.html

but my only advice is that you have to basically keep a month by month reckoning of what you are going to make and keep amending that prediction on the web. Do it as soon as you submit your previous years accounts. I learnt this when I left my submission right up to January, paid my money over and my account total me that I had to pay the same amount again or get fined. I felt like signing on then and there.

I have been doing this downwards(!) prediction for the last two years and it has not been too much of a problem, where it might get interesting is that you get a massive project towards the end of the financial year and earn more than predicted, will you get spanked?

This years fun seems to be around Annual Investment Allowance and the small pools allowance, I had just got used to carrying around my allowance pool (turning any profit into something useful instead of paying tax)) and the idea of depreciation over time and spreading my costs and now it seems that I could wipe out all these expenses over night and I am not sure whether I should keep some for the up turn particularly if you are not making a taxable profit at the moment.

Where were we

Now vats and interesting subject

Now when the museums buy my swapsies off me they wont?t have to pay vat

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPorta...e=document

And come to think of it my context sheets are works of art?
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#36
they are also extremly rare now that I have moved over to my back of an envolpe method

maybe I should go down this route and become a company and call everything I do research and development

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/randd/
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#37
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Unitof1

Old girl I got caught short by the on account tax rip off a few years ago and I did not like it one bit. To tell the truth I would like to know the history of it as self assessment, started 1996 as I understand it and is massively expanding in numbers of people using it every year, but has not been around that much (particularly for archaeologists) and this payment on account and balancing stuff seems like a made up way to take money off people before they have worked out if they have earned (earnt) it particularly as we are still stuck with a extremely primitive and totally unfair yearly cycle accounting system (I blame Stonehenge)

I found this comment on the subject
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/tax/d...52143.html

but my only advice is that you have to basically keep a month by month reckoning of what you are going to make and keep amending that prediction on the web. Do it as soon as you submit your previous years accounts. I learnt this when I left my submission right up to January, paid my money over and my account total me that I had to pay the same amount again or get fined. I felt like signing on then and there.

I have been doing this downwards(!) prediction for the last two years and it has not been too much of a problem, where it might get interesting is that you get a massive project towards the end of the financial year and earn more than predicted, will you get spanked?

This years fun seems to be around Annual Investment Allowance and the small pools allowance, I had just got used to carrying around my allowance pool (turning any profit into something useful instead of paying tax)) and the idea of depreciation over time and spreading my costs and now it seems that I could wipe out all these expenses over night and I am not sure whether I should keep some for the up turn particularly if you are not making a taxable profit at the moment.

Where were we

Now vats and interesting subject

Now when the museums buy my swapsies off me they wont?t have to pay vat

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPorta...e=document

And come to think of it my context sheets are works of art?

Thanks for the tip on the updating, I'll look into it! I wasn't impressed when HMRC told me about the whole thing.

On the zero rating, IfA looked into the Construction sub-contractors tax system thingy when that came in and got a ruling that we weren't covered by it. Maybe they can have a look? I might ask! Smile

On my personal tax, I might just change from a sole trader to a ltd company and pay myself through PAYE. Makes things easier for me, and I can claim the accountant back against tax.....

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#38
I rang up the CIS people and they told me that archaeologists were like architects and they don?t get CIS either.

I have only glanced at ltd company old girl but I did not see it through a PAYE way (unless you want to exploit the workers) but through paying yourself dividends. I am still quite interested if only as part of lifes rich tapestry. It seems to me if you are going to keep accounts you may as well .. keep accounts and call it whatevers to your best advantage (on the grounds that that will be best for your clients).

On the ifa I wouldn?t hold up much hope (see my cis comment I didn?t need the ifa to get a statement), I think that the ice contract is a case in point, the ifa don?t know how to work up from the archaeology point of view or their principles but down from some consultant, big government charity or council trust point of view. I think that they are just a branch of eh. Your best off finding your own way. My own view is that it is all arguable even with the vat tax man. See you in court jimmy

After I started this thread and started getting ?get an accountant? comments I sent an email off to the VAT people but have not had a reply as yet. I must admit that I don?t have an accountant but that was because I thought for self assessment I could not put them down as an expense or your time for calculating your expenses

banned almost immediately, thats for me
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