PROSPECT....where are you?

[GnomeKing]

mixed views - prospect were there for me when i needed them, and Dave Allen made himself personally available - he also could see the same blatant misappropriation of documentary evidence by senior managment that i could - however, regardless of the outcome of my personal experience, prospect has done nothing to follow up this outragoues behaviour by senior managers in a major company. Regardelss of the final outcome of my case, individual and group desciosins in that company needed to be strongly scrutinised - this has singuarly failed to happen.

mixed views - we need unity - but like greenwashing in commerce, 'union-washing' in big arch companies can give unscrupluluos managers flat-cap halos, with only minimal controls by the union on thier actual behaviour.

There is something rotten in the heart of denmark - i have no faith anymore that prospect can fix it

[GnomeKing]

Furthermore-----

i am increasingly thinking that the quality and value of archaeological work lies at the heaqrt of this - were the resilts of good archaeological research lead, i think maybe the rest will follow.

at present there is a significnat ammount of poor quality primary archaeological work being conducted (for multiple reasons) - there has been (in my experience) very little accpetance of new methods, theories, practices, interpretaions or basic outlook in the last 10 years by 'commercial' units.

there is an even greater body of work which overall can only (in my opionion) be described as mediocer.

The Bad Apples are are perpetuating this with poor leadership, lack of informed technical knowledge of the subject, and by philosophical baggage more appropriate to a utilities service than a genuine interlectual, cultural and scientific endevour.

Expunge these Saggy Old Fruits - they have already spread there contagation to those closest to them in the barrel -these fresh looking shineys full of self-worth and self-esteem are also dry and crumbley benaeth the skin

- even better kick down the barrel and start again...

[Unitof1]

what are you doing now?

[GnomeKing]

Additionaly -

there have been many stories over the years of frankly crap work done/managed by people who have only a very limited understanding of the subject - perhapes each time we see it we think "oh well what can be done? this usless-waste-of-air-and-space must be the exception..."

Nope - they crop up every where, and they have ruined many archaeological excerscises and mangled the experience for Real archaeologists.

Fix them, and i think a number of issues will start to become easier.

At present it is extreemly difficult to get anybody to take compliants about how the archaeology of a site is being done seriously - i dont mean the major shockers, but the routine day-to-day things taht dont always seem so significant.

limited modes of thought and interpretation (backed by fairly limited/low levles of specific eductaion) abound, and are prepetutated amongst junior staff who are told "this is the way it must/always be done" - dissent is in practice extreemly difficult and possibly highly dangerous to ones career.

This needs to be fixed - from it will follow higher job sytisfaction, respect, collaboration between people with various levels and types of knowledge ----and ultimatley substantially improved quailty of work - --- quality work will demonstrtae value --- value will provide a bassis for re-negotiating the role of archaeolgoy in the commercial and public spheres.

[GnomeKing]

Finally - if Prospect can provide a vehicle for achieving that then great - it not, they will still be obliged to moniter safe and fair working practices, and we STILL need a way of directly attacking (in a constructive sense) the modes of archaeological practice and managment desciosns.

[oldgirl]

On a different tack to gnomeking:

I mentioned this on an old thread, but I think it's worth saying again.

I used to be in IPMS (the old name for Prospect) - where I was a rep and on a branch committee. We did good work in assisting management of major change in the organisation in which we worked. I left that organisation and set up a field unit (with another person). I was told that I could no longer be a member of the union as I was a member of management....... So, with great regret, I left and did not return.

Unions assist with all sorts of things, such as re-structuring and conditions of employment, which affect all employees. I will admit to feeling annoyance that many of my colleagues benefitted from the work that the union undertook (which was paid for with my subs and my time) without being members themselves, but I felt that it was still worth being a member. I agree that there are benefits to companies in having union representation, not least in communication in both directions. When we had a branch, we had to shout quite loudly for people to listen to us, at least at first, but we got there!

I would also point out that there are many training opportunities available to reps and members available through the unions, if you want a personal advantage.

I'm just sad that I wasn't allowed to continue as a member......

[kevin wooldridge]

I think Old Girl was badly advised. I have been a member of IPCS/IPMS/Prospect for close on 30 years and they have never had an exclusion policy based upon the employment grade of any single member. In fact when I worked at the Museum of London virtually all of our management team (and certainly a number of the current management of MoLA) were union members.

I want to point this out incase anyone out there thinks that they may not be allowed to join a trade union beause of their employment grading....Prospect accepts anyone providing they are willing to work within the rules of Prospect.

[oldgirl]

Helpful to know, as I was quite sad - this was in the mid 1990s. However, I'm not sure I have the time or the inclination to pick back up with a trade union now...... I have always advocated the 'don't moan about them, get involved and influence (not just for a union)' and I would continue to do so. But since leaving (whether badly advised or not) I'm not sure that there was much that they could've helped with (either for me or for colleagues).

On things such as eqaulity of opportunity, rights of certain workers etc, I have used the advice of organisations such as business link to ensure that I am acting both within the law and also to pick up on good practice and ideas from other organisations.

I think this comes back to the same question in the end - what benefit to archaeologists (as individuals and as a profession) get from being unionised? That question needs an answer before many people will consider joining.

[BAJR]

what benefit to archaeologists (as individuals and as a profession) get from being unionised? That question needs an answer before many people will consider joining.

Suddenly I thought... take that sentence and insert group of choice IfA Diggers Forum CBA Rescue
at risk of getting a slap in the chops You answered it yourself many times " I have always advocated the 'don't moan about them, get involved and influence"

Busines link works well for us sole traders, small groups etc... the Field Worker et al... ah... there is the rub.. The answer is in the meaning of union... not the red flag waving cnd badge wearing donkey jacket peoples champion... BUT the strength in voice and numbers that comes to support a variety of issues from H&S PPE provision, pay conditions, representation.. and acting as another strong voice to govt. What it can do is due entirely (as Chiz et al say) up to the membership. Not in it? then surprise surprise... it don't work for you.

:face-huh:

[oldgirl]

}I'm just concerned that we'll get the usual 'I joined and they never did nothing for me guv' stuff. And I also think that the union(s) should be being more upfront and pro-active about what they offer. They're not exactly jumping up and down and shouting, are they.

I agree on the 'take the body of choice' bit, which is why I got involved (and still am involved) in IfA. I also agree that it needs people to get behind something to get it moving in order to make any organisation (Union, professional body, government, employers) listen to what you have to say. Good luck! It takes a lot of effort to get things set up, it also takes a lot to keep things moving. I hope that the support and the momentum is there and stays.