Vulpes is Away

[deepdigger]

Hells teeth Sparky! Good shout mate!!!

deep

[mercenary]

I quite like the odd right wing, "everything's fine, stop moaning" voice on the forum. Reminds me what I'm fighting against.}

[Tile man]

If the pay and conditions in archaeology are so appalling (and illegal) why are there few archaeologists in a union?

Light blue torch paper and stand WELL back.....

[sniper]

well, I am, and they have done...nothing. Don't think a strike by archaeologists over pay is really going to do much...there are plenty of fresh faced graduates to fill the jobs...

++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++

[troll]

A certain union has lots to say and a glossy leaflet on just what they do for archaeologists.Sadly, after years of waiting-they seem to have done nothing of the sort.Further, the union chose to test the waters of our little world by climbing into bed with a certain institute that equally, has achieved roughly the same level of change.

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)

[Tile man]

Well I don't know, I would have thought that a strike as an ultimate sanction could be a very effective weapon. The archaeology being completed is a requirment of the planning process, so the work would still have to be done - given the tight overheads contracting units have to work with Any delay could be potentially disasterous. Besides if all the striking staff were sacked, there would be the problem of recruiting a field team from scratch, who were prepared to cross picket lines - and if they were all unexperienced staff then there would be further delays, no doubt under intense media scrutiny because of the news worthyness of striking and picketing archaeologists.

Not that striking is the only reason to be in a union (I'm self - employed so not really an option for me!) it is about a union of individuals, finances, skills and support which can give you access to legal and finacial deals you may not otherwise be able to get at, for instance Prospects useful guide to your legal rights at work

http://www.prospect.org.uk/doclib/your_r...bc5cd59fd3

I always thought it was a left wing approach not to ask what the union is doing for me but to embrace collective action?

[Tile man]

And of course if the majority of workers in a unit belonged to a union then the unit is legally obliged to recognise it, so there is a conduit for negotiation and representations being made between a union representative, elected from the workforce, and management - which sounds very much like Troll's monitering scheme to me

[troll]

Tile man-see the point but, the suggested monitoring system would be seen to be doing something.Coherent and mandated.Two different issues here-rights of professional workers (pay/conditions) and the need to quash muppetry.Sadly, both aforementioned organisations have achieved little through inaction.

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)

[Tile man]

Well prospect is not the only union, - but it is difficult to see how they could do much given the lack of national solidarity and support shown for their archaeology manifesto - again the lack of support could suggest that the majority of archaeologists were happy with pay and conditions. Or more cynically they were waiting for other people to do the hard work, pay the money, get deported to van diemans land etc. before reaping the benefits?

On a local level surely if everyone was in the union, and the union rep is elected from amongst the workforcs, doesn't that mandate the rep ( and have them visibly accountable to the workforce) and if you are a member of a national union you have access to resource, skills and experience to a much greater level than you could acting alone or as a newly formed group?

Some of this debate sounds horribly familiar - does anyone out there remember ACT from the 1980s? (I seem to remember it stood for archaeologists construct and transform and was meanttooperate as a 'diggers union' or am I mixing it up with another organisation?

[geodan]

Sparky by name, sparky by nature

New topic necessary I think ?

In answer to your question if that's what it was. Anybody working in commercial archaeology has worked for low pay on short term contracts and that includes me. This is how field archaeology worked in the past, works now and will continue to work in the future.

Archaeological work is where it is, not where you are and the workload of companies fluctuates. Hence at the coalface - peripatetic workforce.

My initial post made reference to "inherent problems" which indicates that I do not think that everything is tip top in commercial archaeology.

However, low pay does not necessarily go hand in hand with the necessity of employing people on short term contracts. Unfortunately the market rules - as long as there are people willing to work for the pittance paid by some companies, those companies will continue to operate. In order to stay afloat every other company has to financially compete at the level of the lowest common denominator.

The answer to poor pay and conditions is simple - walk away.

Yes, the small number of archaeolgy graduates ready to work for next to nothing to get their foot in the door will keep bad employers going in the short term, but changes to university funding will probably result in decreasing numbers of graduates willing to subject themselves to three to five years of short term contracts and absolute penury on the offchance of progressing to an extremely poorly paid semi-permanent position.

Dreaming of a never never land where archaeology, however humdrum, has absolute priority over every other issue is laughable and suggesting that the mass of the public are overly concerned about the UK's heritage is also laughable. A small number of the public may have a passing interest and a very small minority may possess a deep interest but the majority will continue to scratch their heads and ask "do you get paid for this".

By the way Troll, I dont think some of your responses are "interpreted as aggressive". Aggressive is exactly what they are.

I would suggest that a vocal minority of archaeologists, in site huts and on BAJR, espouse far left agitprop clap trap that was outdated, ineffective and out of step twenty or more years ago. The relevance of this ideology is even more questionable today.

Direct action, industry wide unionisation etc. Never going to happen, and in any case the power of unions is limited nowadays or did you miss or are you conveniently ignoring the 80's and 90's.

One reason for general malaise may be that archaeologists on the whole are non conformist but probably has more to do with widespread apathy, both societal and industry specific.

Sparky, on a few points you were correct. I will not work for anyone who overtly attempts to take the p**s. That is a personal decision made many years ago and if others in field archaeology had the same attitude the industry would be in a better state.

Aggression, insult and political propaganda of whatever shade are not communication or dialogue. Just childish, tedious and exasperating.