28th December 2005, 12:58 AM
I have been a member of quite a few of the main archaeological forums for quite some time now and have been trying to see what could be done to build bridges between the archaeological community and detecting community. I joined this forum because of Mr Hosty and his attitudes towards detectorists and his work with liaison.
Boy is this one tricky subject for liaison and debate because it stirs up so many passions in both sides. Archaeologists are so passionate about the heritage but some fail to understand that many a detectorist is also passionate about his heritage. There are many problems in both camps that are trying to be rectified with standards.
I believe you need to create a will and lead the way and the other sheep will follow after a while. There are many in the detecting community who have literally stuck their necks out to be chopped off because they have supported recording and trying to work with standards.
The problem is there are no standards within the detecting community (some would like to call the code of practise a standard) but I myself GARY BRUN think it?s a waste of paper (these are my personal opinions) There are many changes going on within the detecting community and many people are coming around to see a change in attitudes regarding recording, recording standards and archaeologists.
But threads like this don?t help either camp especially when they become abusive. ( I think the abuse is drawn out of frustration of not being able to get ones point across on an internet forum? when maybe it would be better face to face? but I hope we can have good referees in the boxing ring). The debate just goes around in circles all the time and ends up in a massive bust up with accusations of rape etc on both sides?. If you stand back and look at it you can see why people get their backs up.
I also think this is also a class problem.
Many people think that a detectorist is illiterate and uneducated and not worth talking too (well we will only if it is really necessary) and doesn?t have a degree etc. This is the mentality that some ?archaeologists? must work on and the preaching of old school that every detectorist is a bad person etc. You cant say this doesn?t exist? some wont reply?but how many of you think this way right now???? This is still being taught in some of the universities.
I don?t have an ology but I am a successful business man with quite a few companies in different countries? but just because I hold a detector in my hand I am branded a thief and rapist etc. I am also thought to be un educated and only have the brain the size of pea that can only hear a beep-beep and dig up metal..
I think the crux of the problem is that both parts of the ?Great Divide? brand everybody the same.
Any mistake an archaeologist does regarding JCB and top soil etc or slags of the detecting community ?doest matter who does it? all archaeologists carry the can. Same with the detectorist and night hawks. There are not many of these as they are really frowned upon within the detecting community? but when one is found out we all carry the can.. same for selling finds on eBay. The eBay thing is real problem for detectorists in the UK because many of the finds originate from outside of the UK and many are from Baltic countries? but we still get tarred with the same brush.
Archaeologists will bring up the night hawk, recording, EBay arguments and the detectorists will use the JCB, Time team and top soil and the legal right as a hobbyists. Were is that getting everybody?.. NO WHERE? just running around like bloody ostriches? and burying their heads in the sand when the certain ?verbal triggers? are brought up and to be honest its so tiring to try and do something positive, only to be ?taken apart? because your archaeological way is the only way? and that?s it. Full Stop!!!
You paid to go to university and get a degree in this profession? yet your profession is not even accredited title? ( I think it should be) and I can understand many being cheesed off because they cant get a job etc. Think of Mr average man in the street who many think they are just paying their taxes for people to earn an ology and then go on then claim unemployment benefit. Face the facts education is a two way street. Times have changed when people ask what is your profession ?Oh I?m an archaeologists? its is seen to be very trendy and ?Up market? and a step up in the ?Class System?. Archaeologists need to get people interested in archaeology and not claim heritage as their domain and nobody else has the right to encroach on it.
If some of you are really concerned about the heritage you will acknowledge the work that is a foot to bring around recording ( OK it may not be the standard that you a professional archaeologist require and some may say it is useless and you have a right to that opinion) but it?s a start and any find recorded is recorded whether it be on a piece of paper, home computer, UKDFD. PAS etc that is taken care off and is passed on.
I for one am sick of the ?ostrich mentality? and feel like were putting on another show of Punch and Judy.
Both sides have a choice? debate and come to a compromise.
When you reach the compromise you will later find maybe a solution? but at the moment we are just pissing in the wind.
lets try and come up with a sensible approach and try and create a standard. the let many of us within the detecting community go out and sell that standard. But don't expect it all to be your way and only the archaeological way.
If anyone wants to discuss this off list then please feel free to contact me as I know quite a few people who would be interested in really working in this area. Maybe Hosty would create a user group on this forum that could thrash out such a standard and invite people over whom are able to put their emotions aside and work in a responsible and constructive manner.
I myself think I will go and join the UN and take a coarse in peace keeping. I may get shot ... but at least i would feel i was doing some good.:face-approve:
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording OUR heritage for future generations.
Boy is this one tricky subject for liaison and debate because it stirs up so many passions in both sides. Archaeologists are so passionate about the heritage but some fail to understand that many a detectorist is also passionate about his heritage. There are many problems in both camps that are trying to be rectified with standards.
I believe you need to create a will and lead the way and the other sheep will follow after a while. There are many in the detecting community who have literally stuck their necks out to be chopped off because they have supported recording and trying to work with standards.
The problem is there are no standards within the detecting community (some would like to call the code of practise a standard) but I myself GARY BRUN think it?s a waste of paper (these are my personal opinions) There are many changes going on within the detecting community and many people are coming around to see a change in attitudes regarding recording, recording standards and archaeologists.
But threads like this don?t help either camp especially when they become abusive. ( I think the abuse is drawn out of frustration of not being able to get ones point across on an internet forum? when maybe it would be better face to face? but I hope we can have good referees in the boxing ring). The debate just goes around in circles all the time and ends up in a massive bust up with accusations of rape etc on both sides?. If you stand back and look at it you can see why people get their backs up.
I also think this is also a class problem.
Many people think that a detectorist is illiterate and uneducated and not worth talking too (well we will only if it is really necessary) and doesn?t have a degree etc. This is the mentality that some ?archaeologists? must work on and the preaching of old school that every detectorist is a bad person etc. You cant say this doesn?t exist? some wont reply?but how many of you think this way right now???? This is still being taught in some of the universities.
I don?t have an ology but I am a successful business man with quite a few companies in different countries? but just because I hold a detector in my hand I am branded a thief and rapist etc. I am also thought to be un educated and only have the brain the size of pea that can only hear a beep-beep and dig up metal..
I think the crux of the problem is that both parts of the ?Great Divide? brand everybody the same.
Any mistake an archaeologist does regarding JCB and top soil etc or slags of the detecting community ?doest matter who does it? all archaeologists carry the can. Same with the detectorist and night hawks. There are not many of these as they are really frowned upon within the detecting community? but when one is found out we all carry the can.. same for selling finds on eBay. The eBay thing is real problem for detectorists in the UK because many of the finds originate from outside of the UK and many are from Baltic countries? but we still get tarred with the same brush.
Archaeologists will bring up the night hawk, recording, EBay arguments and the detectorists will use the JCB, Time team and top soil and the legal right as a hobbyists. Were is that getting everybody?.. NO WHERE? just running around like bloody ostriches? and burying their heads in the sand when the certain ?verbal triggers? are brought up and to be honest its so tiring to try and do something positive, only to be ?taken apart? because your archaeological way is the only way? and that?s it. Full Stop!!!
You paid to go to university and get a degree in this profession? yet your profession is not even accredited title? ( I think it should be) and I can understand many being cheesed off because they cant get a job etc. Think of Mr average man in the street who many think they are just paying their taxes for people to earn an ology and then go on then claim unemployment benefit. Face the facts education is a two way street. Times have changed when people ask what is your profession ?Oh I?m an archaeologists? its is seen to be very trendy and ?Up market? and a step up in the ?Class System?. Archaeologists need to get people interested in archaeology and not claim heritage as their domain and nobody else has the right to encroach on it.
If some of you are really concerned about the heritage you will acknowledge the work that is a foot to bring around recording ( OK it may not be the standard that you a professional archaeologist require and some may say it is useless and you have a right to that opinion) but it?s a start and any find recorded is recorded whether it be on a piece of paper, home computer, UKDFD. PAS etc that is taken care off and is passed on.
I for one am sick of the ?ostrich mentality? and feel like were putting on another show of Punch and Judy.
Both sides have a choice? debate and come to a compromise.
When you reach the compromise you will later find maybe a solution? but at the moment we are just pissing in the wind.
lets try and come up with a sensible approach and try and create a standard. the let many of us within the detecting community go out and sell that standard. But don't expect it all to be your way and only the archaeological way.
If anyone wants to discuss this off list then please feel free to contact me as I know quite a few people who would be interested in really working in this area. Maybe Hosty would create a user group on this forum that could thrash out such a standard and invite people over whom are able to put their emotions aside and work in a responsible and constructive manner.
I myself think I will go and join the UN and take a coarse in peace keeping. I may get shot ... but at least i would feel i was doing some good.:face-approve:
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording OUR heritage for future generations.