IfA Recession Seminar

[Sparky]

quote: Thanks Paul that is marvellous. I almost thought I was there.... to the point that I wanted to throw something at Dave Allan and almost fell asleep during Stuart Bryant's presentation.......

Excellent!

Although, I would have thrown something at Roland Smith and fallen asleep during Peter Hinton, or gone to the pub, maybe.

'Mum!!! Can you get me the toilet roll, please!'

Noam Chomsky

[Velociraptor]

I too, would like to say thank you, to Paul Belford, for writing that report.

[Sparky]

Was very good and very informative.

THough, not wanting to take the words out of his mouth (as Paul says, this does not constitute an official record) but do I detect that Peter Hinton concluded the conference with somesort of IFA recruitment drive...?!

Maybe we should wait for the official record before passing comment...

'Mum!!! Can you get me the toilet roll, please!'

Noam Chomsky

[Paul Belford]

I am glad people are reading it. More comments are welcome, either here or on the blog.

As to Sparky's last comment, I did not make that interpretation of Peter Hinton's remarks myself; having said that I would be surprised if the Chief Executive of the IfA did [u]not</u> make an effort to recruit new members!



[url]http://paulbelford.blogspot.com/"[/url]

[voice of reason]

Thanks for the effort Paul, much appreciated.

Sparky - irrespective of what PH said or didn't say on the day, what is your beef with the IfA suggesting at an event organised and hosted by the IfA that joining the organisation might actually be a good idea?

[Sparky]

Paul and vor,

As I see it, the conference was organised as a joint discussion of the various issues affecting archaeology during this current climate. It was not solely presented by IfA members. The IfA have gone to a good effort to present a plural account of the industry and opinions of the speakers. I see no reference to anyone in Paul's article suggesting that the IfA will see a way out of this mire if they were to join their ranks. If you or the IfA have a special weapon which destroys economic slumps without harming anything else, please be sure to let our Government know about it. I'm sure they will be very pleased.

I would suggest that in light of recent and future job losses, as predicted, that the last thing individuals want to do is give their money over to an institution who can do nothing about it. If you are an unemployed archaeologist what really can they do for you?

I would argue that Peter Hinton's comments should be reserved for the IFA conference and are inappropriate when the discussion is aimed at the misfortune of our industry and those it employs. I would also argue that the IfA does not represent our industry as a whole, yet.

Still, I welcome the efforts of the IfA to have this forum, and hope benefits and lessons can be learnt.

S


'Mum!!! Can you get me the toilet roll, please!'

Noam Chomsky

[Paul Belford]

Sparky I am very sympathetic to the situation of any unemployed field archaeologist (having been there myself in the early 1990s, and, frankly, may yet be there again). However I must respond to your comments...

quote:I see no reference to anyone in Paul's article suggesting that the IfA will see a way out of this mire if they were to join their ranks... I would suggest that in light of recent and future job losses, as predicted, that the last thing individuals want to do is give their money over to an institution who can do nothing about it. If you are an unemployed archaeologist what really can they do for you?

The IfA is a professional institution, not an employer and not a union. Therefore joining the IfA will not immediately change anyone's present employment situation. As an unemployed IfA member you will get "an immediate reduction on their subscription fees from the next available direct debit instalment" (see here). You will also recieve the Jobs Information Bulletin, which as our Host reminds us, is "an alternative UK job service...BAJR and IFA's Jobs Information Service are not competitors, but offer different and complementary services for those seeking archaeological staff or employment" (see here).

In addition to these specific and personal benefits, you also get an organisation that is genuinely bending over backwards to help the sector as a whole... by talking to Government and other bodies, increasing the rigour of standards and guidance, developing programmes for training and skills development, and providing crucial information about the state of the archaeological marketplace.

What more do you expect? For me, the seminar brought home to me the seriousness of the situation for all of us. People were talking about 25% decline in planning applications in the last few months, developers going bust, real issues with skills and archives, a loss of 1 in 12 archaeology jobs in the last 6 months, and a possible 30% contraction of the archaeology sector over the next 12 months. Archaeology is - let's face it - a fairly small leaf blowing about in the bitter winds of global financial collapse.

quote:I would argue that Peter Hinton's comments should be reserved for the IFA conference and are inappropriate when the discussion is aimed at the misfortune of our industry and those it employs.

If this is your understanding then my article may have misrepresented Peter's remarks, for which my apologies both to you and to Peter. I think his remarks about the need to improve accreditation of individuals and organisations within the profession, bringing out the new standards and guidance for curators, using the downturn as a period to improve quality across the profession, engaging with government and raising public awareness were all entirely appropriate to wrap up a day of intensive and wide-ranging discussion hosted by the IfA.

quote:I would also argue that the IfA does not represent our industry as a whole, yet.

This may be because many archaeologists choose not to join...


[url]http://paulbelford.blogspot.com/"[/url]


Edited due to bizarre coding issues

[Sparky]

Hello Paul,

Let me first respond by emphasising the importance of this seminar, its content and the broad sphere of speakers, and also congratulate the efforts of the IfA. Thanks are also due for your 'out-reach' work on this discussion board. It is greatly appreciated.

My post wasn?t intended as an IfA bash but only to cynically highlight what was an event with good intentions but seems to have been turned into a bit of a circus by Peter Hinton?s efforts to cadge a few more members. However, I wasn?t there and was only relying on your article though I did ask you if he said this, which you confirmed. You have to admit it?s a bit crass when put in the context of looming unemployment for some and the real thing for others.

Quote Paul:
The IfA is a professional institution, not an employer and not a union. Therefore joining the IfA will not immediately change anyone's present employment situation. As an unemployed IfA member you will get "an immediate reduction on their subscription fees from the next available direct debit instalment" (see here). You will also recieve the Jobs Information Bulletin, which as our Host reminds us, is "an alternative UK job service...BAJR and IFA's Jobs Information Service are not competitors, but offer different and complementary services for those seeking archaeological staff or employment" (see here).

As I said elsewhere, you can?t readily expect unemployed people to pay to join even if there is a subscription fee reduction. A degree of realism, please. I will agree that its not a bad idea to have access to the Jobs Information Bulletin but, as you point out, there are alternatives, and cheaper ones too.

Quote Paul:
What more do you expect? For me, the seminar brought home to me the seriousness of the situation for all of us. People were talking about 25% decline in planning applications in the last few months, developers going bust, real issues with skills and archives, a loss of 1 in 12 archaeology jobs in the last 6 months, and a possible 30% contraction of the archaeology sector over the next 12 months. Archaeology is - let's face it - a fairly small leaf blowing about in the bitter winds of global financial collapse.

No one is disputing the seriousness of the economic climate, nor the figures.

Quote Sparky:
________________________________________
I would argue that Peter Hinton's comments should be reserved for the IFA conference and are inappropriate when the discussion is aimed at the misfortune of our industry and those it employs.
________________________________________

Quote Paul:
If this is your understanding then my article may have misrepresented Peter's remarks, for which my apologies both to you and to Peter. I think his remarks about the need to improve accreditation of individuals and organisations within the profession, bringing out the new standards and guidance for curators, using the downturn as a period to improve quality across the profession, engaging with government and raising public awareness were all entirely appropriate to wrap up a day of intensive and wide-ranging discussion hosted by the IfA.

I refer to you my comments above. I do not object to any positive actions and sentiments that will benefit our profession and can only praise the IfA and others for their work.

S


'Mum!!! Can you get me the toilet roll, please!'

Noam Chomsky

[BAJR Host]

May I thank Paul greatly for what he did... I have only just got back.. and will digest.. before alos launching phase II of Federation..

VoR is perhaps right to say that at an IfA seminar, where non IfA were welcome at a cost, then finishing with a recruitment drive for the IfA is not unusual... I would think it strange, that people should consider recruitment high on the agenda, when the problem for many is the reverse..

Still it was their seminar in Londan, and they can do what they want. Fair Play. I do hope that a eal more cooperation comes in, where petty differences and past disagreements are set aside for a greater good..

Wortha go.



?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake

[muddyandcold]

Are we seeing a new Hitler in Mr Hosty??????? New federation New Order,,, ???????