I'll vote for that! Duty of the New IFA.

[BAJR Host]

quote: have every respect for people who sit on the committees and who, to be honest, get little thanks for their time and efforts.

I will agree with that... its hard work, and often a little known thing that ordinary IFA members undertake with only travel expenses ... Often I would lose days of work to be involved, and all for the price of my train fare... so not a bad deal

quote: IFA is moving towards CPD against assessed standards, both generally and within the Validation Process. There is a bit of a cleft stick situation here. If they announce that something is being developed they get critisism that nothing happens straight away. If they get on with things in the background until it's ready to go, they get critisised for not taking topics seriously.

trickier... and both an agree and er... disagree... the CPD thing has been rumbling on for some time... and so saying you are doing something... and then.... launching it... and still nothing to see... thats what I would take issue with...

ie CPD
Original Scheme Discussed: 2002

Original Scheme : 2003
Information and advice on the IfA CPD Scheme:
http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/ic...dschme.pdf

17 January 2008 (New Advice)
http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/ic...lained.pdf

Qualification in Archaeological Practice .... a real step forward... just one problem... launched in April 2007... it is now October 2008 (ie 1 and a half years later) and just how many people have trained or been on a training... ??

Point being... the CPD thing has been pootering about for 6 years... the QAP for a year and a half... and ... so far... no numbers about who has done it yet.

I would not critisise an initiative.. I would however ask a simple question about one that is launched which is not quite ready.....

One question to ask (and one I asked in Council) How many people have achieved an NVQ in Arch Practice in the past One and a half years?

ps... I do agree and wholeheartedly support the NVQ...:face-approve:








"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[oldgirl]

Yes, I take your point as I was involved with the original trialing of the national occupational standards and it does take a while. But I still think that people ought to consider when they want things announced.

Plus, I have to admit that I often put in my work quotes 'subject to third party responses' and perhaps the IfA should be cut a bit of slack on that front too. Sometimes it is circumstances beyond their control!

[BAJR Host]

I agree the IfA should be cut slack... as the initiative should be praised..

my concept for announcement is

Announcement 1: We are intending to do this... what do you think
Announcement 2: We have investigated it and come to these conclusions, including your thoughts.
Announcement 3: We ahve come up with a final plan, and will insitage it in xxx month in xxx year
Announcement 4: Due to xxxxx reason, we have to push it back to xxx month in xxx year
Announcement 5: Now we are proud to launch it... (Scheme is ready, andopen for business from the moment of announcement 5)

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[Paul Belford]

Sometimes though it is not always possible to say a reason, due to confidentiality, or not slagging off one's project partners in public.

So it might be (and I am not singling out the IfA for this, it is just the real world, alas!)...

Announcement 3: We have come up with a plan, and hope to instigate it in xxx month in xxx year.

Announcement 4: Due to reasons outside our control, we have to push it back to xxx month in xxx year.

Announcement 5: Due to more reasons outside our control, we have to push it back to xxx month in xxx year.

Announcement 6: Due to yet more reasons outside our control, we have to push it back to xxx month in xxx year.

Announcement 7: Now we are proud to launch it...scheme is ready, and open for business from the moment of Announcement 7.

Announcement 8: Unfortunately due to unexpected demand, misprinting the address on the form, some other reason, we have had one or two teething troubles so that the scheme will now start in xxx month in xxx year.

Announcement 9: The scheme is now running well, so here is a relaunch.

Announcement 10 (hopefully quite a bit later): The scheme although excellent has been superseded by changes to the profession, new legislation, devolution, change of government, credit crunch. We will now consult on a new scheme...

...and so it goes round again :face-huh:

[BAJR Host]

Like it!

It does come down to trying not to launch something that is not ready yet... or has not thought of the possible problems (ie... not enough trainers) see this video for what I mean... Spectacular launch... much congrads... but what happens next!

[video]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tztk0p5GY5M[/video]





"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[Hal Dalwood]

BAJR Host wrote

quote:the CPD thing has been rumbling on for some time... and so saying you are doing something... and then.... launching it... and still nothing to see... thats what I would take issue with...

The information on how archaeologists can document their own CPD has been on the IfA website for a while. The guide to the principles of CPD is pretty clear, I would suggest.

http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/ic...hp?page=20

The goal is for CPD to become compulsory for IfA members, and that is really up to the membership to decide upon. Archaeologists might have severe doubts about joining the IfA, but does anyone who wants to see the successful development of the profession not believe that CPD is a good thing in principle? Perhaps everyone should commit to maintaining their own CPD, either using the IfA forms or finding a documentation system that's more pleasing. There are certainly likely to be problems in achieving CPD goals, but is that a reason for not having a Personal Development Plan. No need to wait for the IfA to make it compulsory for members, just start yourself.



Hal Dalwood

[BAJR Host]

Well said Hal... quite often we (thats all of us) wait until we are told to, before we do anything.. as I said, the IfA guide of CPD has been about since 2002 --- but how many of us do anything about it? That said, does it make any difference to our employment prospect? So why do something that is of no seeming benefit?

We should a) Look at taking some responsibility individually
b) Have a recognised benefit for doing it.

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[Hal Dalwood]

BAJR Host wrote:

quote:That said, does it make any difference to our employment prospect? So why do something that is of no seeming benefit?

Surely CPD is a 'good thing' because it develops new skills and refreshes old skills, and strengthens the profession generally. I imagine most professions who insist on CPD for their members have identified a connection to career progression and employment prospects for their members. If people don't undertake CPD, how can they know if it would make a difference for them?

And what does 'of no seeming benefit' mean? Those sound like weasel words. Surely the profession would have a fair idea of the benefit of CPD if everyone was undertaking it, whether IFA members or not.



Hal Dalwood

[BAJR Host]

Weasal words.. more badger words...

again... I ask a question... and you fell into the elephant trap.

At this moment it is not compulsory ..
At this moment you do it for your own benefit.
At this moment it does not mean you are going to move up a career ladder that does not exist, or get an extra 5 quid a week becuase you have done advanced surveying.. etc.

CPD is a good thing.. indeed it is, but here is the question...

If there is a real benefit at present.. other than the warm glow of knowing you are brushing up skills OR learning new ones, what is this benefit:
Does it mean a pay rise? Do people move up a career ladder? Are they given extra benefits and responsibilities?


Those that do that are investing in training, and giving a clear message that learning and furthering skills has a tangible effect. Not something I see in great abundance (though exeptions do apply).

A look at some recent adverts shows that pay is low, unmoving and in some cases very casual, I see no sign of CPD having an affect on employment- whether I have several CPD skills or not.

Along with CPD must come a recognisable benefit. :face-huh: and you rightly say...

quote:most professions who insist on CPD for their members have identified a connection to career progression and employment prospects for their members

perhaps we could do the same.? :face-thinks:



"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[voice of reason]

But surely when job opportunities are few and far between, the difference between having skills and not having them (and as importantly being able to document and prove them) does have a tangible benefit in making you far more attractive to potential employers. More than just a fiver a week I would say. Embittered hack with limited skills or bright spark, multi-skilled and archaeologically competent - know which I would choose.

I do find that those who grizzle about CPD are often those who also complain that they don't have a career path or have been 'overlooked/not been given the opportunity/discrminated aginst/victimised' by not being promoted...draw your own conclusions.

I also have the oddly unfashionable and Old Labour attitude that education and personal self-improvement are virtues in their own right and improve self-esteem.