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BAJR Federation
#11
Monty, its up to Dr Wardle what rates he charges to whom, its his business. If he has employees, they won't be taking a pay cut if he does a job at mates rates. Thats a fairly big part of running a business, deciding what level to price at. It is illegal for businesses to collude over what prices to charge, whether they are minima or maxima.

Whilst i would be favour of bucking Prospect up a bit, a lot of this sounds like being bound by the codes and standards of the IFA, but without having any say in their decision making.
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#12
but businesses do collude. . . . particularly in the construction industry. . . . definitely in commercial archaeology . . . .
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#13
Whilst it is true that the IFA can represent an individual on a proffessional basis not everyone trusts them enough to do so,similarly PROSPECT can represent people as employees some people have highlighted having a bad experience with them. Although I don't see BAJR as fulfilling either such roles,it can become very effective as a lobby group, working alongside both.
We have read posts that are not pro-IFA or pro-PROSPECT, I have yet to see anything negative said about BAJR, is that because people have more trust in BAJR?
I think there is deffinately a role for BAJR to play which needn't detract from the groups mentioned.:face-approve:
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#14
For those that don’t know a sole trader is a business entity which in not a limited company or a partnership which has one person in charge of it. Freelancer is a sole trader, in many respects without employees: in contrast a sole trader can run a multi-million pound organisation employing hundreds of people.

Yes the freelancer and sole trader are under represented. One way this manifests itself is in comments like “the most dubious small organisations”, “one-man-bands” or one man and his dog organisations these are commonly held prejudices. Sole traders and freelancers have been around in archaeology a long time (as I discussed at BAJR 2006).

Small is beautiful especially when it comes to business. Size does not imply quality - far from it. We have an important role to play in modern day archaeology and should be free to do and this role should be recognised by all.

This to my mind this is why an organisation to represent us is needed and in particular to ensure that organisations like the IFA and BAJR do not impose things on us that make it difficult to trade or make for unfair competition.

RAO are fine but are disproportionately expensive for small organisations. SCAUM is a useful organisation but again it represents in the main the larger organisations.

Independence is important to me and it is entirely up to me what I charge and how much I pay (assuming pay and conditions are above legal minima). To say that it is wrong for me to do charity work is outrageous and to suggest that this means that I will pay my staff badly because of it simply misses the point. I do not get paid for my work for BAJR for example.

Some good points are being made: for example a mechanism for data being exchanged.

I agree with 1man1desk above all else this organisation should not be an alternative to either IFA or IHBC.

Peter Wardle
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#15
I haven't really had enough time to take this all in yet, but whilst thinking of how to reply it might be a good thing to try (as Peter has done) to clarify some definitions.

I think 'sole trader' is actually a legal definition used by Customs and Revenue and as such perhaps we should stick absolutely to their definition. Widening it or redefining it can only cause confusion.

'Freelancer' I consider to be a much wider definition and would include persons who, when they work, are 'employed' rather than self-employed, but for a variety of reasons choose to seek work and undertake work as and when it suits them. This could be for people with family committments who otherwise couldn't hold a full-time post or aren't seeking a full-time post; it could be persons with a particular skill that is portable (i.e surveying), but for which an employer cannot or does not have permanent posts; or for someone who just likes to keep moving around, who works abroad as well as in the UK etc etc

(I am sure that my eventual reply will be something to the effect that a BAJR Fed would be a great idea if it can keep all other 'bodies' in UK archaeologiy onside....Only up to mail 14 on the subject and I already have my doubts....)
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#16
Quote:quote:Originally posted by drpeterwardle

For those that don’t know a sole trader is a business entity which in not a limited company or a partnership which has one person in charge of it. Freelancer is a sole trader, in many respects without employees: in contrast a sole trader can run a multi-million pound organisation employing hundreds of people.

Yes the freelancer and sole trader are under represented. One way this manifests itself is in comments like “the most dubious small organisations”, “one-man-bands” or one man and his dog organisations these are commonly held prejudices. Sole traders and freelancers have been around in archaeology a long time (as I discussed at BAJR 2006).

Small is beautiful especially when it comes to business. Size does not imply quality - far from it. We have an important role to play in modern day archaeology and should be free to do and this role should be recognised by all.

This to my mind this is why an organisation to represent us is needed and in particular to ensure that organisations like the IFA and BAJR do not impose things on us that make it difficult to trade or make for unfair competition.

RAO are fine but are disproportionately expensive for small organisations. SCAUM is a useful organisation but again it represents in the main the larger organisations.

Independence is important to me and it is entirely up to me what I charge and how much I pay (assuming pay and conditions are above legal minima). To say that it is wrong for me to do charity work is outrageous and to suggest that this means that I will pay my staff badly because of it simply misses the point. I do not get paid for my work for BAJR for example.

Some good points are being made: for example a mechanism for data being exchanged.

I agree with 1man1desk above all else this organisation should not be an alternative to either IFA or IHBC.

Peter Wardle


Useful outline of the various arrangements of smaller or individual workers, although again not really including smaller organisations that are companies but only employ a handful of people, of which there are undoubtedly many examples and who are also not well represented.

I certainly didn't mean to attack all one-man-bands (and for that matter I don't see the term one-man-bands are derogatory, it's just a useful short hand, especially if I don't know the exact company structure). Unfortunately, some of the worst reports I have ever seen have been by 'one-man-bands'. That's not to say I haven't seen bad reports or work by larger organisations, but there tends to be a great sense of quality control in my experience. How much individuals charge is entirely up to them, but if they are getting away with poor work they can probably charge very little and still earn a reasonable living.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that doing charity work is wrong, or that in charging lower rates for certain projects would mean pay cuts all round - after all a 10% sale in a shop doesn't (I presume) mean a 10% cut in wages for the staff! It was more concerning the notion that a community project might deserves a lower rate when some have access to pretty large sums of money. Anyway, it is not really relevant to this topic.

I would still personally prefer to see a 'BAJR Federation' doing something different rather than aping the IFA and/or Prospect. How about lobbying curators independently on issues of standards or dealing anonymously with complaints? There are certainly things I would like to complain to curators about but I am not willing to potentially damage any good working relationship. Sometimes I feel the IFA is perhaps a bit too close to be able to do this effectively, but I'm not sure. Would they even consider it their role?

BAJRFed might need to be totally independant for this to work though.
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#17
Can someone explain to me what difference there is between this proposal and the IfA (with some of SCAUM/FAME and Trade Union thrown in)? I admit to not understanding at all what the point is.
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#18
Just a thought is more one than organisation needed.

Peter Wardle
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#19
I admit to not understanding at all what the point is...............

because enough people need it.

To think that the above groups (and I am changing the wording of 5. employees ... to short term employees ) have adequate reprentation is bizzarre .. yes it's possible to say .. you can be in the IfA.. but and it can't be ignored... many people are not.

This is a lobby group... this is also a consultation ... and to ask for comment ... ... comment you are welcome to make.

Then it can move forward if there is a mandate ... you don't have to be in it... and it does not have to replace anyone.... a voice is needed... a forum for discussion that has clout


"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton
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#20
I'm a bit bothered by the line "the employees, who would have to be unionised", as this would bar those who in all other respects are eligible members but who have particular objections to union membership.

I have never joined a union, in large part because I would object to a cut of my subscription money ending up in the coffers of the Labour party. I am heartily sick of the present government and would not wish to do anything that would (even indirectly) support them.

Perhaps there needs to be a greater clarity about what the proposed federation would aim to achieve. If it is to be primarily a pressure group with a broadly left-leaning ethos then the union membership requirement might be justified. But if it is meant more as a support and advice network then it would be unreasonable to exclude those who cannot subscribe to a particular political stance.

"Hidden wisdom and buried treasure, what use is there in either?" (Ecclesiasticus ch20 v30)
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