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+--- Thread: DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE (/showthread.php?tid=3074)
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - Ken Denham - 11th May 2010
"No one here seems to be particularly interested in unions, is the enthusiasm for unionisation only strong in units that treat their workforce in a c**p manner?"
That's the problem. I agree with all the aims set out in the diggers charter, the main thrust (in my opinion) needs to be getting the message out to the archaeologists, enthusing them to become involved and actually take an active part in changing what is a pretty crap working environment. Unionisation could achieve this if only for the reason that employers would have to think seriously about the implications involved when dealing with an employee who has the full backing of a trade union.
It's fine for us, sitting at our computers and endlessly debating what to do and when. We need, if this is to move forward, to become much more site and unit based in targetting prospective supporters so that this initiative gathers momentum.
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - Dinosaur - 12th May 2010
BAJR Wrote:Please try and keep this thread serious... plenty of place for humour elsewhere...
Eeerr, that wasn't being humerous, that was a statement of what usually happens, individual s**t-stirrers tend to be the one's who don't get their contract renewed. If I was management I'd do exactly the same and I've certainly factored that in on plenty of occasions when consulted as to who to get rid of when down-sizing towards the end of big jobs - after the truly incompetent, agitators are usually next on the list. I'm afraid tired supervisors/POs/management can do without the additional aggro of having to deal with them. Even if you're in a union there's no defence against just not being offered a new contract....
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - trowelfodder - 12th May 2010
But this simply takes us back to the circular argument! There is strength in numbers and we have to stop acting only on an individual basis of keeping heads down and putting up with everything as it is. That is the reason for the charter - to allow archaeologists a unified voice and collective bargining so theres not just one poor bastard sticking her/his head over the parapet. On an individual basis there is little that can be achieved so we all have to start looking at the bigger picture.
The defeatist attitude and apathy amongst archaeologists is a problem of similar magnitude to the attiudes of certain units
And as for those who feel that theyre in a great unit that doesnt need any union imput then spare a thought for the industry as a whole. You may not be at that unit for ever, remember how it was before you got there enter the debate in what ways do they improve your life? Are these viable policies that can be adopted elsewhere - a point in question is the english heritage agreement with the inland revenue so staff pay a flat ?10 a week towards accom and they are exempt from the tax that would apply as a taxible benifit.
We need to work together
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - Dinosaur - 12th May 2010
Sorry, that was actually the point I was trying to make, no point unionising unless you have sufficient of the workforce along with you that it can actually have an effect....:face-approve:
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - BAJR - 12th May 2010
so i certainly hope you have printed out and passed the draft document among site staff at your company. have just had a message from IfA giving confirmation that they will get involved in the working party to, adding their experience and contacts. the only union yet to get involved is unison. i will try one more time when i get back. but, like trowelfodder.... i urge people to get involved..... and as ken says... print it out and pass it to site staff... to workers and staff.... get people involved. this is but one outlet.... get it on facbook... email it to friends... print out. do it.
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - trainedchimp - 12th May 2010
Quote:Even if you're in a union there's no defence against just not being offered a new contract....
Oh yes there is - non-renewal of 'temporary contract' still counts as a dismissal and you're still protected against unfair or constructive dismissal (victimisation for union membership being high up on the list of grounds for action) provided you've served the relevant qualifying period... Unless of course you're a'self-employed subcontractor', which means you have no protection...:o)
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - Ken Denham - 12th May 2010
Dinosaur Wrote:Eeerr, that wasn't being humerous, that was a statement of what usually happens, individual s**t-stirrers tend to be the one's who don't get their contract renewed. If I was management I'd do exactly the same and I've certainly factored that in on plenty of occasions when consulted as to who to get rid of when down-sizing towards the end of big jobs - after the truly incompetent, agitators are usually next on the list. I'm afraid tired supervisors/POs/management can do without the additional aggro of having to deal with them. Even if you're in a union there's no defence against just not being offered a new contract....
So Dinosaur, you stated that you weren't management but have been consulted "as to who to get rid of".
Who do you class as "agitators"?
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - monty - 12th May 2010
Dinosaur Wrote:Eeerr, that wasn't being humerous, that was a statement of what usually happens, individual s**t-stirrers tend to be the one's who don't get their contract renewed. If I was management I'd do exactly the same and I've certainly factored that in on plenty of occasions when consulted as to who to get rid of when down-sizing towards the end of big jobs - after the truly incompetent, agitators are usually next on the list. I'm afraid tired supervisors/POs/management can do without the additional aggro of having to deal with them. Even if you're in a union there's no defence against just not being offered a new contract....
Sadly this is true in my experience.........agitators are usually seen as those who stick their neck out on the very subjects the charter is attempting to address.............me included more than once !!..and the non renewal get out is widely used.................
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - Dinosaur - 13th May 2010
Ken Denham Wrote:So Dinosaur, you stated that you weren't management but have been consulted "as to who to get rid of".
Who do you class as "agitators"?
Don't think supervisors count as management? Think it's fairly normal for site supervisors to be consulted as to who they'd like to keep/get rid of, or do office-bound management use a crystal ball where you come from?
Agitators are usually people who are agitating? (rather than getting on with the job they signed up for in the first place - if you didn't like the conditions you shouldn't have signed the bit of paper....) :face-stir:
DIGGERS CHARTER DEBATE - Dinosaur - 13th May 2010
trainedchimp Wrote:Oh yes there is - non-renewal of 'temporary contract' still counts as a dismissal and you're still protected against unfair or constructive dismissal (victimisation for union membership being high up on the list of grounds for action) provided you've served the relevant qualifying period... Unless of course you're a'self-employed subcontractor', which means you have no protection...:o)
Extraordinarily difficult to prove at a tribunal, and new site=new job (if you're being employed on a site-specific contract) so no continuity anyway