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Treasure Trove
#1
Hello, I am hoping to pick the brains of an expert, but if that's not acceptable use here, please feel free to tell me to "do one" as they say on East Enders!

I would like to know what the position would be on Treasure Trove if someone found, say, an Anglo Saxon Sword, a manuscript dating from circa 1071, and the entire gold and silver plate of an Abbey, that had all been buried by the monks in 1538 to prevent it falling into the hands of Thomas Cromwell at the Dissolution, all hidden in the same place, would that be treasure trove? And would the issue change if it was just the sword and the manuscript, and would the situation change if the land it was found on was owned by a) the Church of England and b) English Heritage (or equivalent, ie land owned by the Nation already?) rather than a private landowner who had given their permission. The site would be somewhere in Lincolnshire.

(Admins -if this is the wrong forum page for this sort of wittering, pls feel free to move this)

Thanks!

thaet was god cyning!

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#2
@Scyld Sheafing- Your best bet is to contact your local Finds Liaison Officer (FLO) for the Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS). They can assist with your query. The home page references the Treasure Act. The link http://finds.org.uk/contacts wil
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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#3
Thank you

I'll have a look at the link. I hope you don't feel I've wasted your time but I hasten to add that I haven't *actually* found these things, they are part of the plot of a novel I'm working on, and not being conversant with the procedure, and having been confused by contradictory info on Google, I thought I'd ask the experts!

Thank you once again for responding so promptly, I'll go and check out your link now.

S.
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#4
No worries, do contact your local FLO, I'm sure they'll be happy to help you with the ins and outs of the scheme and the treasure act. "We" like nothing more than for archaeology to be well represented in writing *laughs* If you have questions about archaeology feel free to ask. You won't be short of expert opinion Smile
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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#5
Indeed you won't ... and thanks moreno. You say it all really.

In Scotland of course, everything is TT while in England and Wales, as we know from teh recent Crosbey Garrett helmet.. this is not the case. A FLO will help. and they are very helpful

Don't worry about daft, questions, - there is no such thing as far as we are concerned.
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#6
Hi,

The gold / silver plate would be treasure as it is over 300 years old and more than 10% precious metal. The other items would also be considered treasure as they were found with a treasure item. If the plate was not there the other item would not be treasure (unless the AS sword contained 10% precious metal). However they should still be reported to the PAS ;-)

It wouldnt matter who owned the land where they were found, it would still be classed as treasure. Although I very much doubt that the CoE would allow people to dig around on their land unless it was for development. The finder should have permission to be searching on the land from the landowner, else it would be steeling.. although that may be the point of the book!

see http://www.finds.org.uk/documents/treasure_act.pdf for full treasure act. or http://www.finds.org.uk/documents/treasurefinders.pdf for summary.

hope that helps!
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#7
Detecting on any Scheduled Monument is a crime. As you also ought to have the permission of the landowner and i suspect that EH might be none too keen to permit detecting then it is probably trespass, at the very least, and effectively 'nighthawking', which i think EH would feel needs the application of the full force of the law. As pointed out above, CoE might not be too amenable, either.

Also, you might need to think of appropriate conditions of preservation so that both your sword nor manuscript are still recognisable as such, rather than a mess of corroded iron with some silvery and goldie bits, or your manuscript just isn't.
Your Courage Your Cheerfulness Your Resolution
Will Bring US Victory
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#8
Thank you for this further info. As a couple of you have picked up on, the fact that the location might not be 100% in favour of the activity is sort of one of the drivers of the plot, but without wishing to give away too much, it all turns out for the best in the end. I had sort of envisaged the manuscript being enclosed in some form of metal reliquary or similar. Sealed anyway.

I assume that if it was on private land, and found with the landowner's permission, and declared treasure, then it's a straight 50/50 split of the proceeds of any sale between the finder and the landowner, yes?
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#9
Scyld Sheafing Wrote:I assume that if it was on private land, and found with the landowner's permission, and declared treasure, then it's a straight 50/50 split of the proceeds of any sale between the finder and the landowner, yes?

More often than not, but circumstances dictate and no doubt there are always exceptions! A general familiarity with archaeological and conservation processes wouldn't go amiss. A general archaeological text that may help you is : Archaeology: Theories, Methods and Practise (Renfrew and Bahn). I'm sure a more practised individual in conservation matters can offer a few reference texts.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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#10
You may also want to check the Cornoners Act 1988. The section below might be helpful? Or the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 which has a section on Treasure.

30. (from 1988).
Treasure trove.
A coroner shall continue to have jurisdiction—
(a) to inquire into any treasure which is found in his district; and
(b) to inquire who were, or are suspected of being, the finders;
and the provisions of this Act shall, so far as applicable, apply to every such inquest.
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