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I am with you BAJR. In my experience, people's greatest confusion is over what a record actually represents and some of the websites I feel sometimes have a tendency to focus on records above all. What is useful are glossaries, all the way through, to give context to records which many people have probably found via Google rather than going in at the top level of your HER web presence.
Better mapping I feel represents part of the future. The problem is that many local authorities make good use of GIS systems that are just too 'heavy' for web based used e.g. ArcIMS. Instead, Google maps etc seems a really good way to go and is well used on the Highland site.
Exploring the use of Googlemaps as a full featured GIS, capable of querying in complex ways is a really good thing. Research might indicate that peoples' focus, as suspected, is primarily geograhpical and making the records first and foremost presentable in a geographic way might be something worth exploring.
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It's clear looking at the various sites that we're not comparing like with like though. These sites were all set up for different reasons and probably with different audiences in mind. For some the aim is to make the entire HER accessible over the web for all users, including fellow professionals. Others are trying to present historic information in an accessible way for the general public. Two equally valid but very different approaches.
Two other things to bear in mind are massive limitations in respect of technology and resources. Technology in terms of all singing, all dancing web mapping (would be interested to know of any site, in this sector or any other, that does the things that BAJRHost mentions). Resources in terms of the staff required to recast all the HER information into bitesize chunks and themes for public consumption. Both are huge asks and often unattainable.
By the way, Norfolk's site should be doing a lot better. They have some really good things on there. A good mix of both approaches IMO.
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Sheep quote
Quote:quote: These sites were all set up for different reasons and probably with different audiences in mind. For some the aim is to make the entire HER accessible over the web for all users, including fellow professionals. Others are trying to present historic information in an accessible way for the general public. Two equally valid but very different approaches.
I don't think the two have to be exclusive though. Some of the sites are not very well laid out and poorly presented, I guess as they are intended for professional use. The information on them is however intresting and if it was better displayed would be of interest to the general public.
For example the Bucks website has some really good info, even has flash games for kids (i recommend the archaeolgy one) but is badly laid out, and the front page is one of the least appealing i have even seen and just does not make the user want to explore more. It is simply a matter of good presentation, a subject however that tends to make archaeologist frown and mutter into their beer.
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Some very good points there.. so hope this continues..
The question is always why?
Why put this info online... because you can? because you got a large grant? because you want to share? etc...
surely there should be a uk wide raison d'etre ...
The Norfolk site should be doing well.. (though as we discussed there may be a reason.. as in partisan regional support is better elsewhere) however, there is an opportunity to raise the profile - get support... get the YAC club involved etc...
THe balance of information and education... of professional and public is a balance, but it is obviously achievable. and being a designer of datasets and websites I know only too well the trouble with content and how to display it (BAJR is still a way off being there itself!)
BIG BUTTONS saying... THIS WAY FOR FUN/TRAILS THIS WAY FOR RECORDS THIS WAY FOR THEMES etc...
keep it simple. but keep it fresh. the more it is used the more it is liable to be funded.
I also loathe registration... whats that about?
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
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http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/msl_home
Sitelines nominated for BAJR Award.
British Archaeological Jobs and Resources have announced the shortlisting of Tyne and Wears online Historic Environment Record, Sitelines as one of 8 candidates for BAJR Award - Best Online HER.
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
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WEll... I am going to plug
Norfolk Heritage Explorer
http://www.heritage.norfolk.gov.uk/NHEhome.html
have a look, and see how they use the resource in a variety of ways... the same info, but tailored each time... and great Educational section!
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
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Why should there be a UK wide raison-etre? Every county/region has to do what is right for their own council tax payers. For example, in a large area it's just not that easy for people to get to the office to look at the HER proper, so people want to see the full records online. I also think you're underestimating people's appetite for records and information in the raw. I have friends (not archaeologists) who really enjoy going for a walk and then returning home to look up what it was they just stumbled across.
TBH, there is nothing more frustrating than looking at a website of any discipline and being tantalised by all the information I could find out about if I can get around to making an appointment.
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Interesting.. and nobody (including me) says the raw data should not be there.. it should however be accessible through a number of avenues.. the same data can be interogated in several ways.
My suggestion for a nationwide concept is based on this:
There are people who want to view everything in minute detail
There are people who like to look at just one period
there are people who like to scroll over maps
there are people who like to create walks to visit sites
there are people who like to walk, then find out what they saw
there are schools who can use the information for lesson plans
there are students who want to research an area
there are local groups who need information on a particular topic
there are ..... etc
On online HER could/should be useable to all the identified groups, as I would find it odd that in Highlands for example, people did not like themed downlaods of the best of xxx period while in southwest england, there locals did not like maps of sites, while in the midlands the only info they wanted was the raw lists --- the concept of using the same info presented ina variety of ways (such as Norfolk et al)
You can add to the basics... but what are those basic rules of the online HER?
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Niccolo Machiavelli
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14th April 2009, 10:07 AM
Warwickshire Timetrail is still out there in the lead, closely followed by Northumberland and Durham's Keys to the Past.. but tied in 3rd, the battle is not over for Exploring Surrey's Past and Newcastles' Sitelines.. Highland is creeping up, bu poor voting is hampering Norfolk Heritage Explorer and Revealing Cheshire's Past.
Still plenty of time, as the voting enters the second half.
A look at SMRs / HERs online will be prepared after the fun, to seriously look at what can be improved, and perhaps suggest ways forward. (keeping the time and money needed to a minimum!)
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
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16th April 2009, 02:34 PM
Its good to see that the Norfolk Heritage Explorer has been 'highly commended' (i.e. runner up) in the Best ICT project of the British Archaeological Awards 2008 (all awards listed in the latest issue of Rescue).
Just goes to show how these HER projects are getting noticed and having an impact.
