BAJR Federation Archaeology
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Contracts or no contracts? - trowelfodder - 13th May 2008

Does anyone know whether or not as an employee you are entitled to demand a contract stating your terms and conditions of employment or if it is legal for a company to just say that it is the same as last time you worked for them and refuse to give you a new dated contract?

Contracts or no contracts? - BAJR Host - 14th May 2008

Even that statement would have to be in writing... otherwise there is no 'proof' of statement..

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."

Contracts or no contracts? - oldgirl - 14th May 2008

I believe that you are entitled to a written contract, but the organisation doesn't have to give it to you straight away. (I vaguely remember a 'reasonable period' clause....)

However, the fact that you don't have a written contract doesn't mean you don't have one from the point of view of their responsibilities to you. You have a right to the standard conditions of employment etc. (i.e. you don't have to have a contract to be considered employed by that organisation).

I would guess that isn't the problem though? If the organisation has a staff handbook etc, that could be a good starting place for any contractual issues.

Contracts or no contracts? - ladyjen - 15th May 2008

copied from the website Contracts of Employment section
"The contract doesn?t have to be in writing, but you?re entitled to a written statement of the main terms within two months of starting work.

The contract is made as soon as you accept a job offer, and both sides are then bound by its terms until it?s properly ended (usually by giving notice) or until the terms are changed (usually by mutual agreement)."

So it probably is perfectly legal for them to say that your terms are the same as last time you worked for them.

"a pound of shelled peanuts was handsome pay by any apes standards" Pratchett 1998

Contracts or no contracts? - BAJR Host - 15th May 2008

True, if the last contract was given out.. Wink

AND terms would have changed, as a new pay rate will now be produced... and this has been used by at least one company to expalin why they can't backdate pay to prior employees.. " the new payscale involves a change in the contract, and therefore as you are not working with us anymore, then there is no contract and therefore it can't be changed, ergo... you ain't getting backpay'

So who is right?

There is a requirement for a written statement of terms... and a request must be acknowledged.. surely a company can't jsut say... "yeah yeah... same as before.." as a contract or statement will define, length of employment, rights and holiday entitlement etc... with a contract, then it is not easy to change the mind and get rid of staff before they thought they would be employed to.. [?]

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."

Contracts or no contracts? - oldgirl - 15th May 2008

also from directgov:

Written statements
If you are an employee, you must get a ?written statement of employment particulars? setting out some of your main terms. Your employer must give you this within two months of starting work. The statement must include:

hours of work
holiday entitlement
sick pay arrangements
notice periods
information about disciplinary and grievance procedures
There is an interactive tool available from Business Link to help your employer create a written statement.

Help with creating a written statement (opens new window) If the terms of the contract change, your employer must give you the new information in writing within one month.
What to do if you don't have a contract of employment
If you're an employee, you automatically have a contract of employment as soon as you accept a job offer. What you may not have is a 'written statement of employment particulars' setting out your terms of employment.

If you're not given this, or if it's wrong or unclear, or if you're dismissed for asking for it, you should first try to sort it out with your employer directly. If you have an employee representative (for example, a trade union official), they may be able to help. Ultimately you may be able to make a claim to an Employment Tribunal (Industrial Tribunal in Northern Ireland).

Dismissal for asking for a written statement will be automatically unfair.

Contracts or no contracts? - BAJR Host - 15th May 2008

perhaps I could ask the company to provide the written statements (at least) - and therefore act as an interested but neutral party... I could also not be dismissed... Smile

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."

Contracts or no contracts? - oldgirl - 16th May 2008

I think it's really bad they haven't done it anyway. If it's 'the same as last time', then it should be easy! It's not exactly a tough question is it, unless they haven't done it.

And if they've done any at all, then it's pretty easy to adjust for new staff.

Contracts or no contracts? - darksider - 16th May 2008

are they an RAO ?

I am sure the IFA must have something to say on the matter

Does the company have somethingto hide from its temporary workers?

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Contracts or no contracts? - oldgirl - 16th May 2008

More importantly, it's a legal entitlement. The directgov website has contacts for Citizens Advice Bureau and recommends speaking to them on this issue if you have no workplace representation (e.g. a union). The workplace representative should be able to help (if you have one) even if you aren't a member.

You shouldn't have to do this though, you have a legal right to it and obfuscation is not an excuse.