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distinctive regional traditions - alisdair - 9th July 2012
Dinosaur Wrote:...oh and the charcoal rarely happens in the bottom of the pits, its more usually flecked evenly through the soil backfill which seems like a lot of effort just to make sure its gone out...
Yes I can see that, but after a couple of thousand years of bioturbation, could that not explain the evenly distributed flecks?
distinctive regional traditions - CARTOON REALITY - 9th July 2012
Dino gave that in reply to my fulacht fiadh suggestion. I'd be pretty sure that's not the type of pit being discussed on this thread since they are usually full to the uxters with nothing but charcoal and fire shattered stones, occasional layer of thin layer of silt in them. Very easily identified, charcoal all over the shop, can't imagine any amount of bioturbation would manage to change that.
distinctive regional traditions - Dinosaur - 10th July 2012
Dug enough holes around here to agree that it's not the result of wildlife penetration, or we'd get it in features of all periods? Very distinctive. There's clearly a variety of depositional processes/sequences going on, the charcoally soil ones are obviously different from the ones rammed full of burnt stones for instance, even where they're the same date and grouped together. Any thoughts on pit pairing? Why two? Second one to ritually bury the spoil from the first?...ok, maybe not...Round here there's quite often a bigger one and a smaller one although looking at what happens in the middle/upper Thames valley they more often to get them with similar sizes. Have noticed that several collared urn cremations up here seem to have required two pits next to/intercutting each other.....
distinctive regional traditions - Unitof1 - 10th July 2012
Quote:There's clearly a variety of depositional processes/sequences going on, the charcoally soil ones are obviously different from the ones rammed full of burnt stones for instance, even where they're the same date and grouped together.and you are putting your depositional fantasy into a non entity called "pit" which was constructed by taking material "away". You are comparing cuts based on fills. It almost appears that the pit was constructed if construction is the right word for something that was created by deconstruction.to contain a "charcoally soil", presumably to remain hidden untill required for something.
Personally look at bronze neoages as grotty pot ages because that period is at the remote edge of pot fabric survival. I am quite interested to know how this new pot dateing Rehydroxylation method handles pot from this period because possibly the length of time is such that hydration clay material properties that the method is relaying on are reaching clays natural state and alisdairs bioturbation is really the dominant interpretation that one can ever hope to get out of these deposits. The extreme possibility is that neopits grow out of a much more advanced mesolithic pit culture but that rich inheritance has been all turbated away.
Quote:or we'd get it in features of all periods?dont see why this stands there are deposits like black earths-sorry dark ones that we use to highlight a period unless you are saying that these neo pit fill charcoal deposits are really early dark earths which based on turbation they probably are
sorry where were we, some pits have pot in, some dont and there are probably lots more that dont and we can have their distance plotted from a large variaty of monuments because the neo invented monuments and then we can group them into regions and then contrast them and then sell soap.
As for the placists they are the one who found an iron age ard in the bottom of a so called neo ring ditch or did not spot that the pigs at durrington walls had been collected by a vet. Give them a box of matches and put them in a paper bag and you will never see them agian although unfortunatly the academics dont get to where they are by digging they get there by being in tune with the dead
and this is what neopits evolved into http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/showthread.php?5692-Anglo-Saxon-woman-buried-with-a-cow
distinctive regional traditions - CARTOON REALITY - 10th July 2012
Quote:the charcoally soil ones are obviously different from the ones rammed full of burnt stones for instance, even where they're the same date and grouped together. Any thoughts on pit pairing? Why two?
Can think of one fulacht site with three pits all within a metre of each other. One shallow with charcol/ash and burnt stone (fire pit,) the other two about 2 cubic metres in volume containing burnt stone and silt (hot water.)
distinctive regional traditions - P Prentice - 10th July 2012
Kel Wrote:Concluded that there are only three ways anything ends up in a pit: Put in, chucked in, fell in. Currently trying to drag this out to 20,000 words. Sure it'll be fine...
eroded in?
distinctive regional traditions - P Prentice - 10th July 2012
Unitof1 Wrote:and you are putting your depositional fantasy into a non entity called "pit" which was constructed by taking material "away". You are comparing cuts based on fills. It almost appears that the pit was constructed if construction is the right word for something that was created by deconstruction.to contain a "charcoally soil", presumably to remain hidden untill required for something.
unfortunatly the academics dont get to where they are by digging they get there by being in tune with the dead
yes slothrop
distinctive regional traditions - CARTOON REALITY - 10th July 2012
Quote:Any thoughts on pit pairing?
Just had another thought. You don't need water to cook either - two pits, one heats stones(stones don't necessarily have to be in contact with fire, think of a pottery kiln/oven type of arrangement, figure of eight/ keyhole shaped pit?) the other pit has maybe two-thirds of the heated stones thrown into it, these are then covered in leaves etc. food placed on leaves (a nice side of salmon?) More leaves on this, last of stones placed on top of whole thing. A roof placed over whole affair to trap heat (are postholes in some pits to support this roof?) Thirty mins later, Nigella comes along and serves it up to a thankful television audience. Yum yum. These kind of pits are used in Papua-New Guinea and are associated with marriage celebrations etc.
Author accepts no responsibility for these comments.
Will put graphic up on my blog PP.
distinctive regional traditions - Dinosaur - 10th July 2012
Unitof1 Wrote:Personally look at bronze neoages as grotty pot ages because that period is at the remote edge of pot fabric survival.
Do not put Grooved Ware through a siraf unless you want a sulky pot-person :face-crying:
Three pits blows the 'somewhere to put ones feet when sitting on the ground' theory then.....
...although maybe the hot stones were foot warmers?
More seriously, plenty of pit groups don't have any ones with burnt stones so don't think they're critical to the process whatever it was, and whatever it was does seem to have changed and got more complicated through time while sticking to some of the basic criteria like digging pits of a certain size-range and often in pairs
distinctive regional traditions - P Prentice - 10th July 2012
different fills = different seasons?