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+--- Thread: Working Hours? Do you ? (/showthread.php?tid=4431)
Working Hours? Do you ? - RedEarth - 2nd May 2012
Dinosaur Wrote:Takes me (optimistically on a good day with no traffic) an hour and a quarter each way just to the office by car, or 6 hrs horror a day using public transport, and I've survived it for 20-odd years (get through a lot of cars though) ....so actually prefer being on site cos the accomodation's usually a lot closer than my house is to the office....am pretty certain this was going somewhere, any suggestions?
Except that the distance you choose to live from your office is your lookout, especially after 20 years. Here's a mad idea, try moving closer to work?
Working Hours? Do you ? - Bodger51 - 2nd May 2012
You can’t go about building a career ladder and professional diversity by-basing it upon vehicular accidents and a career ladder based upon scrabblingover dead bodies and pay
You either work together competitively
or compete upon a fair and diversity of opportunities.
With a limited diversity in career structure then you are forced into theformer, whilst the issue of how times have changed really needs to be taken onboard and what that actually means.
If you work on the basis of a growth sector, then competition is based uponexpansive opportunities, where time is in your favour, where ultimately you getsomewhere within a career structure.
Whilst if you’re in a shrinking or stable sector, with growth work power availablethen you’re talking about maintaining a professional career focus, to maintainor expand objectives.
The 90s afforded the PPG's whilst the PPS concept, working under an extendedargument that is based upon enterprise in the past, as experiential workingmethods, means that the working environment needs to be engaging and supportedfor community engagement and consistently deliverable.
But if there is consistent delivery within stretched overheads, this meansthat there was slack somewhere.
If assumptions of organisational slack are unconsidered within corporateliability, then it falls into the offered argument of fun and communityengagement.
If it is then redistributed amongst the work force as a method of maintainingoverhead costings, then at corporate level, this liability is displaced intopersonal insurances and professional consistency in ensuring that people aregetting to work safely.
If this is equally assumed then nobody is actually taking responsibility forthis and its a matter of make do and carry on, without actual accounting.
Generally that means that the risks and potential further overheads cannotbe incorporated into a actualising business plan.
As such investment is an issue, where too much of the overheads areunaccounted for within the business models, in which case there is no career orprofessional development of diversity or structure.
Under these conditions, this would imply that there is little room forsector growth outside of the office environ, or work flow management, whichwould further add strains within organisational structures.
Potentially by design, or by fortune, this would account for the limitedopportunities for sector growth.
Taking this into consideration alongside career ladders, built upon opportunitiesfor disability inclusion the risks predominantly work upon “you can’t keep up”,“we'll flog you till your gone”, or you can become trapped by the skill gapwhere the flogging is essentially known and designed (in)debt slavery, orfeudalism.
Either way, the pay and hours don’t really matter, but it’s rather “how manypeople do you need to OUTCOMPETE in a VERY small world before you’re satisfiedwith a career and up-skilling opportunities to leave that form of employment?”
That’s not a perspective by which to develop a profession, it’s justdangerous free marketeering (and professionally suicidal)
Working Hours? Do you ? - alisdair - 2nd May 2012
Jack that is a very interesting and pertinent point you make. When I was a labourer in discussion with my Tradesman and the Project Manager of a job the conversation fell to achievable targets, both turned round and stated that in truth it is only the first two hours of the days work when you can expect optimal target (for want of a better word), the fall off then is rapid. I was working for a stonemason/builder at the time and was genuinely shocked by that. I had been bursting my erse for long enough and thinking I was making a difference/on top of my game. I suppose what I am saying is that although our behaviour as a spieces is well known and acknowledged, yet perversly we have to play the 37.5, 40. 48 hours per week shecht.
Working Hours? Do you ? - angi - 2nd May 2012
As a former manager often pointed out, there are dozens of people willing to do my job for the same money and conditions and while this is the case things will never change. It is galling, though, that if you told a bin man to get to work an hour before they start getting paid, check the oil and tyres on their lorry, load it up, drive for an hour or so and then they would only get paid when they emptied their first bin, then once they stop getting paid they then have to drive for an hour back to the depot, the streets would be knee-deep in rubbish!
Working Hours? Do you ? - Bodger51 - 2nd May 2012
Reminds me of the man who was crushed to death by the concrete ramp for theT5 car parking lot.
How many travel through there every day and don’t even know that a man diedfor a ramp, so they could park cars for the next 40yrs.
A statistic I heard once that there was a death every 6days in roadsidedevelopment works.
I don’t know the catchment area, but I'd still prefer the new average speedcameras for stable corridor flows of traffic rather than the odd slip and slideinto fluorescents
Working Hours? Do you ? - Wax - 2nd May 2012
The real issue is not the time spent at work (be it on site, in the office or travelling) but the money you are paid for that time. European directives for weekly hours are ignored or bent in many professions but the monetary rewards are there, in archaeology they are not. Hence what can only be called exploitation and a cynical manipulation of the desperate desire most archaeologists have to stay or get a foot through the door in a profession that has limited opportunities.
I am now at the point where because I cannot move out of my local area for family reasons I am having to seriously look at other ways of making a living. The debate over travel and working hours becomes peripheral when there are no jobs or job security :face-rain:
( think I might have just made the same points as Bodger 51) Except the one about people kicking the bucket when building ramps. People die every day in a wide variety of professions (hence health and safety) but I am sure there are some out there who would consider killing to become archaeologist}
Working Hours? Do you ? - Marcus Brody - 3rd May 2012
angi Wrote:As a former manager often pointed out, there are dozens of people willing to do my job for the same money and conditions and while this is the case things will never change. It is galling, though, that if you told a bin man to get to work an hour before they start getting paid, check the oil and tyres on their lorry, load it up, drive for an hour or so and then they would only get paid when they emptied their first bin, then once they stop getting paid they then have to drive for an hour back to the depot, the streets would be knee-deep in rubbish!
It's a fair point, but the difference is probably that most bin men probably regard it as just a job, so would happily do something else if faced with unacceptable conditions, while most archaeologists view it more as a vocation, so are prepared to put up with a lot before they'd consider changing career. Rightly or wrongly, archaeology is regarded by many as an aspirational career, in that it's something they're desperate to do, while refuse collection probably isn't.
Working Hours? Do you ? - Dinosaur - 3rd May 2012
RedEarth Wrote:Except that the distance you choose to live from your office is your lookout, especially after 20 years. Here's a mad idea, try moving closer to work?
Who in their right mind would want to live in small-town N. Yorks/Co. Durham, average age 70+? Bad enough trying to operate a company from the a***-end of beyond.....high-speed internet? What's one of those? At least we're all getting really good at driving on snow....
Working Hours? Do you ? - RedEarth - 3rd May 2012
Dinosaur Wrote:Who in their right mind would want to live in small-town N. Yorks/Co. Durham, average age 70+? Bad enough trying to operate a company from the a***-end of beyond.....high-speed internet? What's one of those? At least we're all getting really good at driving on snow....
It sounds idyllic, you getting a commission from the local tourist board? I believe it has a castle and everything, what's not to like!
Working Hours? Do you ? - P Prentice - 3rd May 2012
Bodger51 Wrote:You can’t go about building a career ladder and professional diversity by-basing it upon vehicular accidents and a career ladder based upon scrabblingover dead bodies and pay
You either work together competitively
or compete upon a fair and diversity of opportunities.
With a limited diversity in career structure then you are forced into theformer, whilst the issue of how times have changed really needs to be taken onboard and what that actually means.
If you work on the basis of a growth sector, then competition is based uponexpansive opportunities, where time is in your favour, where ultimately you getsomewhere within a career structure.
Whilst if you’re in a shrinking or stable sector, with growth work power availablethen you’re talking about maintaining a professional career focus, to maintainor expand objectives.
The 90s afforded the PPG's whilst the PPS concept, working under an extendedargument that is based upon enterprise in the past, as experiential workingmethods, means that the working environment needs to be engaging and supportedfor community engagement and consistently deliverable.
But if there is consistent delivery within stretched overheads, this meansthat there was slack somewhere.
If assumptions of organisational slack are unconsidered within corporateliability, then it falls into the offered argument of fun and communityengagement.
If it is then redistributed amongst the work force as a method of maintainingoverhead costings, then at corporate level, this liability is displaced intopersonal insurances and professional consistency in ensuring that people aregetting to work safely.
If this is equally assumed then nobody is actually taking responsibility forthis and its a matter of make do and carry on, without actual accounting.
Generally that means that the risks and potential further overheads cannotbe incorporated into a actualising business plan.
As such investment is an issue, where too much of the overheads areunaccounted for within the business models, in which case there is no career orprofessional development of diversity or structure.
Under these conditions, this would imply that there is little room forsector growth outside of the office environ, or work flow management, whichwould further add strains within organisational structures.
Potentially by design, or by fortune, this would account for the limitedopportunities for sector growth.
Taking this into consideration alongside career ladders, built upon opportunitiesfor disability inclusion the risks predominantly work upon “you can’t keep up”,“we'll flog you till your gone”, or you can become trapped by the skill gapwhere the flogging is essentially known and designed (in)debt slavery, orfeudalism.
Either way, the pay and hours don’t really matter, but it’s rather “how manypeople do you need to OUTCOMPETE in a VERY small world before you’re satisfiedwith a career and up-skilling opportunities to leave that form of employment?”
That’s not a perspective by which to develop a profession, it’s justdangerous free marketeering (and professionally suicidal)
somewhere in here is a truth worth repeating
i'll make do with 'get together and get sorted or you will get what you deserve'