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past horizons link - troll - 4th February 2007
Seems that Dr Jerome Rose is happy to allow anyone experienced or not to excavate Byzantine tombs in Jordan. Also seems to be the case that everyone will get the chance to supervise the excavation of at least one tomb too....experience not necessary.Worrying to say the least.Archaeology as a tourism business?Even if the excavations are directed by a qualified individual-what is the ratio of qualified/experienced staff to volunteers? How on earth can anyone justify allowing an unqualified/inexperienced volunteer "supervising" a Byzantine tomb? Scary but grotesquely ubiquitous.It goes without saying that I am all for public participation but, not at the expense of another nations heritage,professional standards and-certainly not for the profit of roaming academic institutions who should be employing qualified professionals instead.:face-huh:
..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)
past horizons link - Els - 4th February 2007
Jerry Rose is a respected osteoarchaeologist, someone likely to be sensitive to the dangers involved with unqualified staff excavating burials unsupervised. I fear that "supervise" may be simply a poor choice of word, and since this is speculation based on semantics we should give him the benefit of the doubt here. "Participate" or "observe" might have been better choices.
past horizons link - troll - 4th February 2007
I accept that completely and if this is simply an innapropriate choice of semantics then I retract my observations unreservedly! The principle however remains, any Byzantine burial ground/cemetery/tomb complex surely deserves attention other than paying volunteers.Doctor Rose as a respected osteo would surely accept that such terminology would ring alarm bells even in the most uninformed professional and I hope that he accepts my observations in the spirit in which they were offered.
..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)
past horizons link - Els - 4th February 2007
I completely agree. Having been on the post-ex end attempting to make sense osteologically of what resulted from poor excavation methodology, the mere prospect is alarming.
past horizons link - BAJR Host - 4th February 2007
Now this is an interesting concept.. I have been on sites abroad where paying volunteers have done a damn sight better job.. being more careful, more worried about doing it wrong etc etc... and properly controlled by professional archaeologists. (my self included) - I can can dig a body in around a day.. (too many burials under my belt.. some 500 +) but these vollys spend days.. and clean and care for them like babies.
Perhaps people might want to go to the Past Horizons Forum (http://www.pasthorizons.com) sign up nad put this discussion up...
I am happy when this happens under proper conditions.. and in this case I can't think of a better director for it. I know only too well how some osteos feel that diggers rip up stiffs in some cases.. one cry I remember is ... where are the bleedin fingers!! I have been on one site with young archaeologists where they had no idea how to excavate a body.. ALWAYS ALWAYs leave the hands, face and feet to last.. what about sampling the stomach area!....
Anyway.. it is valid to discuss.. so take it to Past Horizons too.. get the forum going.. it needs a jump start..
And before anyone asks.. It is my wifes site.. and a BAJR sister site.. It would be interesting to make some sort of control on the suitability of sites to appear on Past Horizons..
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
past horizons link - sniper - 5th February 2007
agreed that some volunteers take it very carefully with skeletons and can afford to spend the time. However, having been involved with post-ex of tomb excavations run as volunteer digs in the Near East, if the sampling strategy is to dig it in arbitary spits and all the bone is just pulled out because everyone thinks, including the directors, that it is animal bone...I understand that Dr Rose is an osteo but I don't believe that everyone on the site will be and so if he wasn't around at the time that a tomb was being dug... and that's even leaving out the issue of do we really want to encourage the excavation of tombs that are not otherwise under threat?
++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++
past horizons link - BAJR Host - 5th February 2007
Fair point sniper.. but the question is - not whether volunteers should excavate burials, but more the strategy and methedology of the excavation.? I would suspect that it is the methods of arbitory spits and more 1930s style archaeology performend by archaeology Profs that casues more concern than uber-careful vollys?
Don't even get me started on Students or the training they 'learn' on some sites abroad.. Gawd elp em when they return to a pipeline contract....
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
past horizons link - Els - 5th February 2007
According to the advert, it is a bioarch field school, not an ordinary one, so I'm sure that the specifics of burial excavation will be covered in full, and completely supervised. My first field school was a cemetery site, and the dangers of confusing animal w/ neonate or fetus bone were covered, as well as block lifting, etc. I take Sniper's point about the experience level of the supervisors, as they are ultimately where the crucial level of quality control lies.
past horizons link - sniper - 5th February 2007
yup, no problem in itself with volunteers digging skeletons as long as they are fully supervised all of the time, at least for the first few adults, and on any sub-adults. I suppose my problem is a lot more with the poor standards of archaeological excavation by roaming professors in other people's countries (note they hardly ever do any digging in their own country, interesting that...) and the poor standard of training that this provides their students who then, at least in some countries, go on to become consultants who think that antiquarian treasure hunting and awful recording is an acceptable standard of archaeology.
I also don't believe in the excavation of tombs, burials, graves etc etc unless they are threatened by development or grave robbing, but then a professor digging them just to get the pretty things out and not recognising or caring about the human remains is just another form of tomb robbing anyway. ANY excavation where it is known that human remains are likely to be found should have an osteologist attached to the project, even if they are not actually on site every day, and that is especially important for research/training digs where the vast majority of people doing the digging will not have any knowledge of what human remains look like and how to deal with them. Once students/volunteers have been guided through the excavation of skeletons and how to recognise them by someone who knows what they are doing, they will have that knowledge and be able to use it in future. If they are led by people who don't know and don't care, how are they supposed to know any different?
++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++
past horizons link - Sith - 5th February 2007
Quote:quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host
Fair point sniper.. but the question is - not whether volunteers should excavate burials, but more the strategy and methedology of the excavation.? I would suspect that it is the methods of arbitory spits and more 1930s style archaeology performend by archaeology Profs that casues more concern than uber-careful vollys?
Don't even get me started on Students or the training they 'learn' on some sites abroad.. Gawd elp em when they return to a pipeline contract....
I noted that this is a collaboration with an American university, and was reminded that I have rarely met an American archaeologist/anthropologist who has even the slimmest grasp of stratigraphy or its application on site. They do tend to rant a lot about seiving for goodies though.
(Sorry if I've offended any Americans who know better)
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
WSIs do not concern me, Curator. I want that site, not excuses