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+--- Thread: Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? (/showthread.php?tid=3972)
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - BAJR - 13th June 2011
NEXT chief executive Lord Wolfson has backed City A.M.’s campaign to allow the redevelopment of the Broadgate estate near Liverpool Street, warning that “unthinking bureaucracy is fossilising the economy” by giving the site listed status.
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Wolfson, who sits in the House of Lords as a Conservative peer, said English Heritage’s move to recommend the listing of most of the Broadgate site “exemplifies the deeply regressive nature of the listing process”.
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/lord-wolfson-don-t-protect-broadgate
We often accuse EH of inaction, but when it does they are accused of unthinking bureaucracy. So what is it?
More on the site here:
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/aj-poll-should-broadgate-square-be-grade-ii-listed/8615676.article
and here
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about/news/eh-responds/broadgate-square/
Make your point and vote on the poll.
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - Unitof1 - 13th June 2011
Quote:[SIZE=3]We often accuse EH of inaction, but when it does they are accused of unthinking bureaucracy. So what is it?http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about/news/eh-responds/broadgate-square/
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Eh did nothing until the developer (was it?) applied for a Certificate of Immunity (from Listing) application-end of 2010. Lets call that eh inactivity. But then they had all been sitting around dreaming for just this type of eventuality, lets call that bureaucracy but probably thinking pension for old rope
Quote:[SIZE=3]The 'thirty year rule' was first set out in policy in 1987 by the Department of the Environment, removing the 1939 ceiling on listing buildings. The current wording of DCMS guidance (Principles of Selection for Listing Buildings, March 2010) states 'buildings of less than 30 years old are normally listed only if they are of outstanding quality and under threat'.Now they are sitting around making sure that every body knows that their dcms guidance was out before the application and don?t mention it as another pension guarantee for really doing very little except hoping that the dcms march 2010 guidance?s have statutory authority having been produced 2 months before the last general election when I am sure what ever political party wasnt in control of the civil servants and probably not into giving a monkies what was in a dcms guidance over something to do with 1939 which was a strange year.
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Heres an old fashioned way to get transparency
Quote:[SIZE=3]FOR INFORMATIONBut then grabbers of pensions to be paid by your childrens taxes like to be one step ahead of fashion don?t
For further press information, please contact Helen Bowman, English Heritage Communications, 0207 973 3294 / 077 8992 7584 or helen.bowman@english-heritage.org.uk
To obtain a copy of the English Heritage advice report, please contact the DCMS press office on 020 7211 2210
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Quote:[SIZE=3]Experience has shown that listing must be one step ahead of fashion and we seek to celebrate those buildings that are exemplars of their time and place. This includes buildings of all types and dates - including key design of the recent past.
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Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - Sith - 13th June 2011
Unitof1 Wrote:Eh did nothing until the developer (was it?) applied for a Certificate of Immunity (from Listing)
And let that be warning to developers about the inherent dangers of applying for a Certificate of Immunity. }
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - Unitof1 - 13th June 2011
yes a very odd thing to do. Is it common practise? how many applications for certificates of immunity are applied for. Could similar certificates be applied for in tcpa?
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - Winders - 14th June 2011
I assume you mean by TCPA, the grant of planning permission under the various Planning Acts? Listed Building Consent is a very different animal to Planning Permission legally, even though the two processes are often handled together. It's an apples vs. oranges thing, so no there's no equivalent to Certificates of Immunity from Listing in the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 and the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004, just as there's no equivalent of Certificates of Lawful Use or Development under the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990.
CoI's are always a gamble but it's fairly well known that if you don't get it granted by EH then a listing recommendation to the SoS will shortly follow. Then again, as the other option is to risk a major redevelopment being halted at the last moment by a sudden listing of a property, it does provide some amount of certainty.
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - Sith - 14th June 2011
Unitof1 Wrote:how many applications for certificates of immunity are applied for.
The NMR data download site has a dataset for COIs which lists 93 sites with certificates beginning between June 2006 and May this year.
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - Jack - 14th June 2011
I feel this is part of a larger political agenda between different factions within government.
But I dont understand why a modern building should be listed.
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - GPStone - 14th June 2011
Could someone help the discussion along a bit by briefly outlining here the case for why Broadgate should be listed, please.
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - Madweasels - 14th June 2011
From EH statements section
"Broadgate Square is an exemplar of commercial place making. Here, 'people places' and office buildings harmoniously coexist - the result of developer and architect working successfully together. Rare for commercial developments, people enjoy Broadgate Square - in this sense, it is a triumph of urbanism, a special place in the financial heart of the capital."
City 1, Docklands 0
Canary Wharf next then - and they will be able to use the same paragraph - just replace Broadgate with Canary Wharf - in the other financial heart of the capital.
Listing Broadgate.. unthinking bureaucracy or what? - kevin wooldridge - 14th June 2011
Of course EH could really put a feather in their caps by providing funding allowing the publication of the DUA archaeological excavations which took place prior to the construction of Broadgate. Very interesting site......