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+--- Thread: Job titles (/showthread.php?tid=357)
Job titles - trowelfodder - 17th December 2006
Why dont units use the same job titles as are used on the pay scales? I have found from experience that its difficult to argue for equating job descriptions and requirements to the pay scales (although it seemed no problem for our beloved DC)and terms such as project assistant, field officer etc mean different things in different circumstances and units.
And why in the cotswold advertisement is a project archaeologist a site assistant 2 job? Surely if an archaeologist is routinely expected to carry out watching briefs and take responcability on a regular basis it belongs in the supervisor grade? The odd WB at site assistant level would seem fine but as a day in day out job seems to take the mickey a bit?
Job titles - BAJR Host - 18th December 2006
The trouble has always been job titiles... and although I have argued for standardisation ... it is too difficult to implememnt ... believe me. This is why job titles mean nothing... you could be called a Grand High Poobah... it matters not... it is what you do that matters. That is where I have put more though into the standardisation... The new document (out soon...) equates Grades to Job Responsibilities .... Therefore a G4 could be called a Field Officer and Junior Project officer a Supervisor and Senior Project Archaeologist and Overseer - you can be called whatever... but at the heart of it... you are a G4
Here is a sneaky peek (of an as yet not finalised) description for a G4.
G 4 :
(ie Technical Worker 2 or Supervisor type)
recommended minimum £xx,xxx(£xxx.xx per week)
Expected to be competent in chosen field and able to instruct others in the basics as well as take responsibility at a low level.
Will supervise others to required tasks, but will receive instructions from higher level. ::
Usually the person has experience in G3 activities and/or has trained for post with relevant CPD training courses or G3/4 training period â rated in yearâs experience.
Professional knowledge
Will have a competent knowledge in a particular
professional discipline and/or responsibility
for a discrete area of work
Decision making and influence
Will play a supervisory role.
Freedom to act
Work within set procedures and standards
and reports to more senior colleagues.
Communication
Generally working as part of a team to deliver
work targets.
Will be responsible for small projects and discreet areas of larger projects
Qualifications
Likely to have degree and relevant
postgraduate qualification (or equivalent
qualification/experience/training).
Previous experience
Demonstrable relevant experience (over
three years).
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Job titles - trowelfodder - 19th December 2006
So do you think that the wages/grade that are offered by cotswold for project archaeologistsare appropriate?
And on the subject of pay grades is it just me or are there an increasingly large number of units now using the trainee grade? When i started digging in 02 there were less jobs about but those that were were taking graduates on at the bottom of diggers wage which then was i think around 12,430. Not great but not as poor as those on offer now. I left uni with around 4months exp but units now seem to pay anyone with under 6months commercial exp at a trainee level - surely this is in real term a step backwards for graduates. If a trainee is the lowest level why do we need a degree?
I saw advertised a trainee report writer post aimed a recent graduates was offering at its lowest levels £11,000! Surely a report writter position is far better suited to someone with fieldwork experience but as a wage that is outragous! And the worst thing is tha with the experience offered i know of many diggers with years of experience who are considering it just to gain the experience.
Job titles - BAJR Host - 20th December 2006
Yes - or it would not have got on the list. (plus the list of benefits is large... including holidays etc...)
Is the pay of archaeologists in general too low... well yes... but we all know that.... So it is not fair to suggest that the wages don't match the job.... they match the current pay scales...thatâs all.
A Project Archaeologist is not being asked to be a full G4 type person (just doing Watching Briefs is not being a full Supervisory job)... and so is well in the new G3/4 type grade - from where they are on a springboard to G4. But allows an experienced Digger to get higher wages.
I have to confess that I have not seen these Trainee jobs you are talking about... all diggers jobs start at 13854... apart from a very few which I have checked to ensure are really training posts. The Post you talk about... trainee report writer.. I have talked with the Contractor (I do try ya know) and was assured and convinced that it was indeed such a post... where, after a 3 months of training.. (ie... time and input from the employer to provide training to the person to become a report writer - and boy do some people need training) they will move up to the next grade.
Notice that they were to be given full training in AutoCAD, Adobe Illustrator etc⦠and how to write reports - very handy skills that will help them get other jobs. And was £11,193 (the bottom of G1)
People can over estimate their abilities⦠and can ned training to achieve the next level. I know myself that thinking I can run a site is very different from actually running a siteâ¦. thinking I could run a company better was a whole lot of poop that I did not know about⦠was not prepared for and was a steep learning curve⦠(a curve that often meant I made big mistakes) The training grade is important between each level.
I know what you are trying to say trowel⦠However if people with years of digging experience are considering it⦠greatâ¦. Not because of the wage⦠but because of the opportunities it opens up for the future⦠People pay to go on courses to learn⦠this is a chance to gain the training and get paid⦠Apprenticeship if you willâ¦.. so what they are doing is not demeaning themselves⦠rather taking a look at their skills⦠seeing where they have a chance to learn and get paid⦠and making a sensible decision.
Can I once again re-iterate.. sometimes I make mistakes⦠but in 99% of all adverts⦠I check personally ones that seem to be on the edgeâ¦I turn down adverts that donât meet minimum levels⦠(perhaps not the best way to make maximum money⦠but I feel it is more ethical..)
The wage levels are a different thing⦠but have people joined the Diggers Forum? Will people stick by BAJR..? I certainly hope so.
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Job titles - trowelfodder - 21st December 2006
Didnt mean to have a go at your adverts it was meant more as being a real shame that there is such poor career progression that people have to take several steps backwards before being able to move forward.
Job titles - BAJR Host - 22nd December 2006
Sorry myself Trowel... I read my post and it semed a bit stroppy... ... bad Badger... bad...
I am a bit tired and pooped just now - which is no excuse..... we all are...
cough... er... sorry.
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Job titles - 1man1desk - 22nd December 2006
Perhaps we could consider a new standard scale of job-titles for archaeologists, developed from hints in Flanders and Swann. The hierarchy could go something like this:
Chief
Assistant Chief
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Junior Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Underling
Troll
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Job titles - drpeterwardle - 22nd December 2006
The grade descriptions say:
"Previous experience Demonstrable relevant experience (over
three years)."
I think this needs to clarified so that it cannot be interpreted as meaning 3 years at that grade.
Peter
Job titles - kevin wooldridge - 22nd December 2006
Quote:quote:Originally posted by 1man1desk
Perhaps we could consider a new standard scale of job-titles for archaeologists, developed from hints in Flanders and Swann.
Flanders and Swann? Flanders and Swann!!
Whatever next. 'Shanks and Tilley - The Musical'...... 'Mud, Mud, Post-processual Mud'......
Job titles - mysteryman - 31st December 2006
I work in the field, for a unit linked to one of the allegedly better universities in this country. I have no job title, no job description, no contract, have been told I have to have the whole period of 22 December 2006 to 2 January 2007 off work, but won't get paid a penny, no pay on Bank Holidays, emergency tax every week, no paid breaks.
Oh and the health and safety provisions for this unit are surely illegal as well - the nearest trained first aider is located about 5 miles away in the office at the university. We haven't even been told where there is a first aid kit, if there is one on site.
Does anyone else have such problems with their unit? I have made a complaint to the university and will be seeking legal advice regarding this unit. What do people suggest I do? Anyone with any advice please email me at sclomax2004@yahoo.co.uk
Thanks.