+- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk)
+-- Forum: BAJR Federation Forums (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: consultants and all that... (/showthread.php?tid=1930)
consultants and all that... - Troll - 20th June 2005
You may have guessed by now- I`m not really a fan of this species although, they do come in all flavours. My question here is-what are the criteria for an archaeological "consultant"? Can consultancies make the criteria up for themselves? Does this not worry anyone out there? Bit unhappy about the growing trend of consultancies actively recruiting fresh graduates...anyone else disturbed by this?[?]
consultants and all that... - deepdigger - 20th June 2005
Yes Troll mate I am concerned about it too!
With no disrespect to anyone, just because you have graduated with a degree in archaeology does'nt automatically make you an archaeologist!
A lot of companies will employ people straight out of college knowing full well that they don't know their a**e from their elbow.
I fully understand that we were all in the position once, where we needed that first job after graduating but surely there should be some kind of minimum requirement before these raw recruits are sent out alone!!
thoughts?
deep
consultants and all that... - drpeterwardle - 20th June 2005
I will write at length about this in due course - I only logged on because I had to email a progress report to the clients.
I once got into a lot of trouble because I dared to say that consultants need a lot of experience and training. To do the job well in my view you have to lots of field experience and all sorts of others skills.
The only people I tend to "employ" as opposed to sub-contract to are however undergraduates and new graduates. They do not however get anywhere anything where a decision or the research can make a difference to the outcome. I might advertise for one shortly.
For example last friday I had to trawl through 15 trade directories. I cant find a key reference to a key building and I have looked through them three times. Have I missed the entry or is the building not mentioned. Exactly the thing to give to somebody else to look for.....
Peter
consultants and all that... - Alfie - 20th June 2005
I would say that consultants are really at the hard edge of commercial archaeology. If you are not very good at your job working for a local authority it is remarkably hard to get the push. If you are not a very good consultant it is likely that you will lose your job because of market forces. That said can I use this opportunity to call Dr Pete a "Running Dog" again?
consultants and all that... - mercenary - 20th June 2005
.
Quote:quote:The only people I tend to "employ" as opposed to sub-contract to are however undergraduates and new graduates
I've always kind of suspected something like this was happening. It seems like field experience disqualifies individuals from all sorts of jobs in the heritage sector, not just consultancy. May I ask why DrPete? Are new grads cheaper to employ or just more malleable?
consultants and all that... - the invisible man - 20th June 2005
It's a pity other sections of the archaeology industry don't take on more newly qualified undergrads, in order to provide tomorrow's fully fledged experienced professinals, and to take their fair share of the time and expense of on the job training.
Consultants exist because that is the way the system was set up. To my mind, and, I gather, a number of other people's, the adverserial system we have is inappropriate and unbalanced, and a product of the dogma of its time. I say unbalanced because a developer, via his architect, as another consultant, is positioned, opposite the planning authority. One tries to work with them for the good of all, but one often gets stuck in a adverserial situation: the planner fancies a change to the building and you don't: ultimately the planner will invariably win becasue he has the power (unless you're Tesco and can threaten expensive appeals).
Not so with archaeology. The beleagured county mountie may well not even have the support of his "colleagues" in the planning department and is effectively fighting a rearguard, damage limitation action.
Today, Bradford. Tomorrow, well, Bradford probably.
consultants and all that... - Sith - 20th June 2005
I spent about fifteen years in field archaeology of one sort or another before getting a job as a consultant as did the majority of those I work with, so I don't identify with the ignorant "officer class" of consultants so loathed by some regular contributors.
That said, I have met some complete drongos acting as consultants over the years.
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
Deathstar House
Endor Industrial Estate
Milton Keynes
RD22 3PO
consultants and all that... - drpeterwardle - 21st June 2005
The only people I employ are very short term temporary posts usually to people who live in or near the village I live.
They are there to do very specific basic research. Whatis the problem. New graduates have to start somewhere.
Peter
consultants and all that... - drpeterwardle - 21st June 2005
I have been putting off replying to this because of the time it will take. Firstly myself - i have been doing consultancy work since 1988 and running my own business since 1992. Before that I worked as a field/computer officer.
What do we mean by consultant - it is a much overused word. Do we mean people who write the DBA?, write specs, judges tender competitions, advise the client present evidence to enquiries? Are we including finds consultants, geophysics consultants or what?
Lets deal with the unpopular role -cutting down the costs of an excavation. It is true that many clients come to consultants thinking that they can wave a magic wand and remove the need for an excavation. Usually it is too late and all one can do is ensure that the work is or will proceed at the required level. This is particular so if the team are hired in on a day rate. In effect we are acting as a specialised ?cost consultant? which is a standard part of the building trade.
One key part of the job is ensuring that the job will be done to the satisfaction of the Local Planning Authourity this may mean increasing budgets or rejecting very low bids.
Anybody can set up as a consultancy ? with or without the relevant skills. A knowledge of field archaeology is not enough ? a knowledge of the planning system is vital. Every contracting Unit say they advise the client.
Advising the client is the core task of the consultant.
This is easier said than done and is far more complex than people imagine. The image of the developer is somebody who does care about anything other than the profit. This is a very simplistic stereotype. PLCs have duties to share holders by law to maximise profits, (this is particularly so for pension funds), charities can only spend money on their charitable purpose, housing associations do not want to take risks. Time, risk, convenience, and cost have to be balanced not forgetting the archaeology.
The key message of PPG is co-operation not confrontation with developers. It is the consultants role to ensure that the developers adopt a none confrontational approach. It is us who explain to the developer what their liabilities are with regard to archaeology and how they can be managed. We are easy targets for criticism within the archaeological world because we dare to treat developers as human beings.
I make no apology for the fact that now as an archaeologist I can afford to eat, have my own home and run a reasonable car. I am invariably the lowest paid person on a project team. It is not a cushy job. In one week last year I drove from Oxfordshire to Woverhampton, Oxfordshire to Worcester ? Worcester to Cornwall ? back to Oxfordshire. Then Oxfordshire to Suffolk return.
I am sure that everybody can quote examples of consultants who have done things which we disagree with ? I dare say there are people on BAJR who will criticise some of the things I have done. I dare say people can quote examples of people doing consultancy without the right skills or experience.
It will soon be 15 years since PPG16 was introduced and with it a 100 million budget for archaeology. If developers have to pay for archaeology they will want archaeologists to act for them.
As for the notion of sending a new graduate on their own to deal with any project in its entirety ? it is just plain stupidity. I would be amazed if that is actually happening. The amounts of money involved are just too great. They would not know where to begin.
Consultancy has become a career route in its own right without the need for a strong background in field archaeology. The same is also true for curators. Recruiting new graduates is therefore a logical step. For the big environmental consultancy they view archaeology in the same way as they view other disciplines and recruit accordingly.
In some respects this is a worrying trend but is at last one part of archaeology that is well paid, with a career structure, with training and job stability. Perhaps what we should be discussing is how what has been gained in consultancy in terms of employment can be transferred to field archaeology.
Dr Peter Wardle
The Archaeological Consultancy
consultants and all that... - BAJR Host - 21st June 2005
Thanks for that Peter... a real answer
Another day another WSI?