+- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk)
+-- Forum: BAJR Federation Forums (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Jobs jobs jobs! (/showthread.php?tid=1853)
Jobs jobs jobs! - drpeterwardle - 2nd April 2005
I think David is right that there does need to be a balance between pay and security of tenure.
What is important is not the actual amount paid but the standard of living that can be achieved. The cost of accomodation is a very important factor. If you are in a B&B with no cooking facilities eating out can be very expensive. I note one organisation provides B&B and UKP5 a night subsistence. Then there is the cost of maintaining a base for weekends or those gaps in employment.
On the other hand for an employer the costs of employing somebody and conforming to things such as sick pay, holdiay pay, training and similar is a very expensive business.
Peter
Jobs jobs jobs! - the invisible man - 2nd April 2005
Hmm - I wonder if it's too late to switch courses.... to accountancy, perhaps, or maybe plumbing?
Somehow the thing needs to settle down. If the pretence that coomercial archaeology is part of the construction industry is to continue, then, well, yes it's appropriate that site staff are employed on a contract basis, just the same as operatives in the rest of the industry (and don't get on your high horses about having degrees and things, most construction workers these days have jobs just as skilled and responsible). BUT - and it's a great big but - the crucial point is that those guys get paid between two and four times what a digger gets, and can reasonably expect continuity of work.
Alternatively, archaeology is seperated somewhat and staff are employed on a professional basis, with proper permanent contracts. This will only come about with more long-term work for the medium and small units, and/or a complete revision of how commercial archaeology works.
Either way I can see no reason why arch. staffs pay should not be substantially increased, the development industry )who ultimately pay it) can easily afford it. If all units raised their tenders by 50%.......... after all there is something of a captive market: if there is a planning condition, well there it is, the work has to done.
Now then, back to Yellow Pages for courses in plumbing..............
Jobs jobs jobs! - the invisible man - 2nd April 2005
Reply to Doc Pete - yes sure, employing people is expensive but pretty much every other industry, trade or profession manages it!
The idea is, as I understand it, to charge a bit more for your services than it costs you to provide them...
Jobs jobs jobs! - Pete M - 2nd April 2005
I wouldn't question that field archaeology can provide a superior way of life for 10-15 years, but things go rapidly downhill thereafter.
The current situation is historical (no surprises there) - in the 1970s there were a handful of fulltime archaeologists, which increased during the decade as lots of trusts and units were established.
Many archaeologists walked straight into good jobs, and one or two are still holding on to them. Archaeology was still a very unusual subject to study, and there was little competition for jobs, so it is likely one or two duffers are still around. So these are the people who now 'run' things.
I studied archaeology in the early 80s, after swapping from business-based course after year 1. We had about 12 students in total in our year, about half of whom definitely didn't want to become archaeologists. 4 years later there were over 100 studying archaeology at the same university. Lord knows how many are studying it now.
So there is a huge glut of graduates, who are just about intelligent enough to take on without much training, and who are always told to take on low paid work to build up their cvs and experience. The middle class ones with understanding parents also have an advantage.
Once you leave the field you might as well get a well-paid office job and take up archaeology as an amateur - let someone else worry.
The best bits about being a professional archaeologist for me are/were:
- working outdoors in beautiful locations (I don't do roads or urban)
- working with like-minded people and getting drunk with them
- finding out new things from original fieldwork
- having the (smug?) feeling that you have somehow got one over on life by making a living from such a ridiculous occupation
Once you leave the field these things go with it - I can't imagine what real satisfaction there is in managing underfunded archaeological projects - the stress levels are probably horrendous, and simply not worth the pay.
Jobs jobs jobs! - BAJR Host - 4th April 2005
Beautifully put Pete... beautifully put...
Enjoy it and then get a job! I had a near breakdown doing a Stress High Directing a company job.... then I thought... whoah.... slow down.
BAJR is stressfull but enjoying... I still get to dig in teh field now... and also do amatuer work out in lovely countryside - both here and abroad. I only do county mountie work 2 days a week.
So I feel happy and smug in equal measures :face-approve:
Seriously though... I think you have hit the roman nail directly and fairly on the head. But we need someone to do the management!
Jobs jobs jobs! - troll - 4th April 2005
Preferably carried out by people from the field.......
Jobs jobs jobs! - Oxbeast - 5th April 2005
Chris Clarke wrote a pretty good assessment, with some added drama to make the audience sit up and take notice at:
http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/icontent/inPages/docs/conference/clarke2004.doc
There seems to have been talk in the meeting about 'benchmarking', which sounds much like the guidelines that BAJR has set, but SCAUM seem to have the upper hand on that one, pointing out the "intense competition in the sector", and that they won't jepordise commercial viability........
Same old same old....
http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4
Jobs jobs jobs! - eggbasket - 5th April 2005
Quote:quote:Originally posted by troll
Preferably carried out by people from the field.......
Actually, it seems to me that part of the problem with field unit management is that the people in charge came from the field. Just because someone is a good digger or supervisor does not automatically make them a good manager. This is often compounded by units failing to provide training in management skills with the net result that the unit stumbles along.
The fact that some people achieve their position within a unit by default does not help either. Essentially, some people achieve their position within units by virtue of their length of tenure. Length of experience does not equate to competence. I know diggers of many years' experience who really should not be on site. Likewise, I know people who have only been digging a short time, but who are remarkably competent for all that.
Of course, this is not to say that all unit and project managers are bad. I have known some who are actually quite good but only because of their individual skills, not as a result of any formal training.
Oh, and before anyone says it; I am not advocating only employing people with MBAs and no field experience as unit managers or anything similar.
Jobs jobs jobs! - the invisible man - 5th April 2005
An ideal person would be someone who has about 30 years experience in perhaps a construction related profession, like say architecture for example, with amateur archaeological experience followed by a full time degree.... such a person would be invaluable and should be snapped up and paid a huge salary..............
In actual fact, Eggy, the situation is not dissimilar in many other trades and professions. It is an ironic fact of life that the best workers at the coal face, so to speak, will probably get promoted away from what they're good at. (Obviously there are many other issues, people who wear nice suits, laugh at the bosses jokes and so on get promoted above all others)
I'm not sure which is worst, managers with no formal training, or managers with formal training. The latter tend to be into ludicrous buzzwords and jargon, reams of paper, "procedures", and all that sort of nonsense. A propoer balance is probably acquired only through expererience by th e"right sort of person" with an inate ability for the task. Bit like digging really, only cleaner.
Jobs jobs jobs! - Boxgrader - 5th April 2005
I don't recall having many opportunities to wear a nice suit while working in the field, although maybe my smartly pressed combats and polished steelies impressed someone.
Boxgrader [:p]
Lend me your watch and I'll tell you the time.