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+--- Thread: Bone Kickers (/showthread.php?tid=1001)
Bone Kickers - BAJR Host - 20th July 2008
I can spot 1960s nylon stitching now... using my bionic eye
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Bone Kickers - RedEarth - 21st July 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Digitaldigging
In the other 'bonekickers thread Redearth expressed a desire for a sh1tkickers t-shirt. They're here. }
http://www.cafepress.com/****kickers
All proceeds to charity*.
Er, thanks for that. Not quite what I had in mind. I hope you didn't spend ages finding those!
*It's not impossible.
Bone Kickers - TheDoc - 21st July 2008
I asked a colleague (a museum worker but not an archaeologist)and her view of episode 1 would be unprintable even here. The trailers were a bit of a giveway that this was not going to be exactly intellectually challenging. Nor would one expect strictly accurate portrayals of archaeological techniques. It's a few years since I picked up a trowel mind, but I saw nothing that even passingly resembled a real dig. However, what is most dispiriting about this kind of thing is not the Dan Brown type adventure stories, but the assumption that everything has to be done at breakneck pace in order to keep viewer interest. I got nauseous just watching the constant cuts to a new scene, let alone the content. On the plus side, if the viewing figures continue to plummet, one series might be all we are inflicted with.
Bone Kickers - Steve-B - 21st July 2008
Quote:quote:Les Dawson-ish or manboobs, after talking with many women about this, there is a point to be made (although it is quite funny too and I'm not trying to sap all the life of the workplace.. honest )
All this is different of course if men know the women very well. We all have male friends that we take (and give) a bit more in the joshing department. I just thought the whole issue needed a bit more definition.
Men look at (young) women a lot and it's okay if they're not too obvious/drooling/still able to speak. If they're being obvious they should be prepared for some comment, welly boot swipe or complaint from the women concerned. Women really do see excessive 'tit' (or bottom) appreciation as an annoyance and/or threat. While I agree with Peter that violence isn't the answer, women often react that way - not enough to cause serious or even slight injury, but enough to make a point. I confess that I have (in my younger days) 'accidently' stood on a man's foot rather hard in a similar retaliation. Other types of comment can be made if women do say something - 'do you have your period?/do you need a Prozac?/have you not had sex for a while?' which are also received badly on the whole.
If men have women in a junior position they should be extra sensitive to it. Women often are under pressure to sleep with their boss (and I'm not saying archaeology is bad, but if you worked as a student in a bar, in an office etc, it happens too). If male supervisors have a young woman in the trench on her hands and knees trowelling and they make it a habit to stand in front or her, or behind her, she's clocked him doing it and probably wishes he wouldn't. Also if women are involved in doing some particularly physical work (fast shovelling/mattocking etc) - we do notice if work slows around us and there's a bit of an audience! We know our boobs jiggle, we can get out of breath and it can be a bit sexy.... but it's WORK! Many women like feeling sexy and appreciated - but not pressured. That's the difference.
Lastly, women will rarely tackle the issue directly. If a man is a bit inappropriate, women will often leave workplaces and move on. But they tell other women about it and there are men who have terrible reputations..... (don't go near him, he'll pinch your bum... watch so and so after two/three pints etc).
I actually think archaeology is much better than many disciplines which is why I'm so disappointed with Bonekickers. Men in archaeology on the whole are lovely, but there are some bad apples.
Thanks
Wearing my sensible head for a change, I think it is important to acknowledge your above post, more so because it isnt made in the usual P.C. mode, which means I for one didnt immediately dismiss it.
Trouble with P.C. attitudes is that the increasing amount of down right ridiculous P.C. attitudes is overshadowing the more sensible ones..
Anyway back to your post.
I think you have made some very good points and do agree with you, especially if a person feels threatened in anyway by anothers comments, even if they are meant as a joke, no one should feel threatened.
I draw a lot of comments towards myself, as David says, my boobs are legendary, being a bigger built bloke I habitually get comments on the my size, my man boobs etc, althoug I intend to either ignore them, laugh them off or give as good as I take, I guess the real difference is that I dont feel threatened by the comments.
I also feel that humour is a great way of dealing with tense or difficult situations, a lot of times, situations only become serious when they are taken seriously, but then I understand that not everyone has the ability to laugh something off, or an innapropriate comment has been made just once too often.
Its a difficult situation and complex because as you say, familiarity will lead to more give and take, plus I guess its only human nature for a chap to see a wobbling boob and feel atrracted, after all its attraction that keeps the species going.
Quote:quote:Many women like feeling sexy and appreciated - but not pressured. That's the difference.
Yes and its not the apreciating the difference that causes the problem.
http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk
If a job is worth doing, then its worth doing it tomorrow!
Homer (Simpson)
Bone Kickers - BAJR Host - 21st July 2008
I think it is the essense, where it is not the overdrive PC.. it is the knowledge to know the difference.. to respect people, but not the point where PC atitudes override everything. A builder can be disciplined for making remarks and whistling... - I had to talk to a builders firm once... my wife was whistled at by builders, to the point where she would take a different (and longer route) - they.. by there actions, caused her (and others) distress.. but sadly, it was me (as a man) that had to talk to the builders... becasue she was no longer confident enough to go in and complain... how sad that 'it was just a bit of fun' caused distress, which they did not even think about.
Perhaps as men, if we think about the feelings of others.... (would we like it if somebody made comments to our wife, partner, girlfriend? - I doubt it)
Steve says it in the last sentance... its not the apreciating the difference that causes the problem.
Dolly Parton may be unreconstructed and gruff.. but does that mean he can comment on a new staff members breasts at his first introduction... hmmmm I could imagine the embarresment if a female member of staff (my boss or superior) looked me up and down and before anything else, remarked on the size of my ####
winking at other staff at the same time... I would not stay in that job for long I can tell you, and would probably be quiet, not becasue I accepted that behaviour, but was to shamed to do anything else, fearing ridicule and more laughter...
WE can, slag each other off, and the like, once we know each other, and feel comfortable with the parameters, and meaning. I always remember a dig in York, where there was much (I hope) good natured and offensive abuse directed at me... which was a laugh... I had been away from the site for 3 months on another job, came back and a new member who I did not know joined in... the hut went silent .... they went red faced and spluttered... but you were all slagging off Rat... "yes.. " came the answer... "but we know each other".
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Bone Kickers - Steve-B - 21st July 2008
Quote:quote:its not the apreciating the difference that causes the problem.
or even...
..its not appreciating the difference that causes the problem.
http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk
If a job is worth doing, then its worth doing it tomorrow!
Homer (Simpson)
Bone Kickers - oldgirl - 21st July 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Steve-B
[quote]its not the apreciating the difference that causes the problem.
or even...
..its not appreciating the difference that causes the problem.
http://www.detector-distribution.co.uk
I was appreciating the difference......I agree with that and with the point that it's different with people you know. That's because you feel safe with them and can give as good as you get. I have to admit, however, that I'm not exactly a shy retiring girl (as anyone who knows me will probably tell you when they pick themselves up off the floor after laughing at the idea) and I have gone and had a word with construction teams who were harrassing my female co-workers. They stopped, not least because we then became people rather than objects.
It's about having a bit of respect for other human beings I think.
And goin back to the 'Dolly' character - I did say a while back I quite liked him and I do. I just think he probably wasn't breast fed...... }
Bone Kickers - BAJR Host - 21st July 2008
maybe he was... and thats the trouble
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Bone Kickers - deposit-it - 24th July 2008
Thanks to Steve B, Host and oldgirl - I must confess I've been terrified to look on here after I posted my piece and I'm happy that not only has been taken in the way it was intended, you even feel comfortable enough to take the p** at my poor writing!
Bone Kickers - Pippyn - 24th July 2008
I blame Charlie Dimmock...
Although there's nothing wrong with being comfortable
Just maybe not in the work place...or on national television. I don't think it's done much for the 'appreciation' of us women