Boots, kneepads and donkey jackets

[Toria]

I will (hopefully) be starting my first job as a field archaeologist soon, but before then there are a few things I need to get hold of. Well, quite a lot of things really, but there are three things on which I'd like the assistance of fellow BAJRs - boots, kneepads and donkey jackets.

Donkey jackets - where in London sells them fairly cheaply?
Kneepads - which ones do you recommend and where would I be able to get them?
Boots - I found these: http://www.x-moor.co.uk/view_item-550.htm in the gun shop in Lampy, and found them really comfortable. Would they be suitable for field work?

Many thanks! ;)

~ What do you mean, 'Where's Lampeter'? ~

[diggerhobbit]

Hello Toria

Depending on which unit you are working for, you may get some of the equipment you listed actually supplied to you by them? But its best to turn up ready prepared with your own gear to start with and anything extra you get is a bonus!.

The boots you listed look nice but you should really invest in steel toe capped boots for site work or at least check if you are required to have steel toe capped boots by the unit you will be working for - depends what sort of site you are on? (sorry if you already know this!). I am not up on the ins and outs of health and safety but i believe steelies are a requirement on most sites now - also i think rigger boots are not allowed on some sites (quarries? etc) because of concerns regarding ankle support etc so best to contact your unit about that but id opt for some nice lace up steelies for now with some dubbin to make sure they are waterproof and plasters to help with the inevitable 'breaking in of the boots' blisters!.

As for the knee pads Im not too sure, i had some in the past from places like B&Q, Wilkinson's and gardening shops, some people use the gardening/kneeling pads too. There are shops around that specialise in safety gear, although i cant think of any names of the top of my head but these will have all that you need, coats, boots and pads.

Sorry i cant be any more help but good luck and happy digging! [8D]

Diggerhobbit

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

[tom wilson]

Dunno about donkey jackets.

I always crouched, rather than kneeling, but I can't say whether that's an effective solution as my knees were ruined before I was a digger. If you'd rather use them, kneeling pads may be supplied by the unit.

Most importantly, you'll need a pair of boots that conform to British safety standards, which I believe these days means a plate in the sole as well as steel caps. Try googling 'personal protective equipment' (i.e. PPE) and you'll find a specialist shop, I know of one on Kingston Hill.

I'm not sure if they are safety compliant, but I'd also like to put in a plug for Vegetarian Shoes in Brighton, if only for their slogan:
'A treat for your feet if you don't eat meat'.

[Gog]

A waterproof high-vis jacket is a better option than a donkey jacket - unless you want to look like my dad (ex-CEGB) circa 1979.

[historic building]

you must have steel mid soles in your boots to go on a site now.

[diggerhobbit]

i wasn't aware that steel plates were required in the sole of boots now so thankyou to historic building and tom wilson for pointing that out. I haven't dug for a while but think I will probably need to invest in a new pair of boots when i get back out there! :D Sorry for misinforming you in my earlier post Toria! Good luck!

Diggerhobbit

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

[lucy78green]

Your company is legally obliged to supply safety boots, but the waterproofs they give you are usually rubbish in a heavy shower and non-breathable. Better off getting yourself a proper raincoat and trousers, but don't spend loads cos you'll rip the knees out of them within a week. kneeling pads are usually supplied - but in the event of a shortage I have a pair of big yellow rubber kneeling pads apparently designed for carpet layers that are fairly heavy duty I bought in a tool shop.

Lucy

[achingknees]

quote:Originally posted by tom wilson


I always crouched, rather than kneeling, but I can't say whether that's an effective solution as my knees were ruined before I was a digger.

I too crouched, hence the name...

Squatting puts a lot of strain on the knee joints. It can also damage your back when features start to deepen.

All PPE should be provided by the unit - might be worth calling them. If you want to be kitted up for your first day save your receipts and you might be able to claim the money back.

[Curator Kid]

I was a croucher too - I've got dodgy knees from being taught Rugby by incompetents when I was 11.

JJB Sports sell Hi-vis jackets at the moment. The one near me has got them on sale at the moment for less too. Much better than a Donkey Jacket.

[BAJR Host]

me I was a kneeler ... wish I had used kneepads then.. (now I do...) but one knee is totally knackered... really quite sore actually!

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[BAJR Host]

http://www.bajr.org/Documents/101Tips.pdf

Lots about what to wear... including 3 entries about kneepads !

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Gog]

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

http://www.bajr.org/Documents/101Tips.pdf



You mention in this document about not wearing a woolly hat under a hard hat - you can get liners now that do this job - they look a bit like medieval skull caps and are very thin but very warm - mine was from a climbing shop, designed to be worn under a climbing helmet, but I have seen them in site equipment catalogues.

Mine was bright red and made me look like I'd had a head injury - choose a different colour is my advice.

[Orkynowot]

Thomas Brothers in Archway is good for all archie gear...and will also order stuff if you need it.
Good luck and watch out grid pegs....a year on and still trip over them.

May god go with you in all the dark places you must walk.

[Gog]

Incidentally, how many people have routinely been issued helmet-mounted ear defenders as standard PPE kit? I had to buy my own, as we were only given ordinary ones that could not be worn under or over a hard hat and were, therefore, useless. Having said that, I don't think I've ever seen a photo of someone with ear defenders who's actually using them.

I wonder if anyone has ever done any research on the possible detrimental effects on hearing of standing too close to construction machinery for years on end - even outside in a field this can be pretty loud.

[achingknees]

Gog et al

Noise is an issue that we should be concerned about. Managers have a responsibility to consider noise in risk assessments. Units are obliged to provide PPE to all workers who work in noisy environments. It's the law.

Plenty of research done...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/index.htm

Consider machines, especially with breakers, generators, pneumatic tools etc. One rule of thumb - if you need to raise your voise to communicate with a colleague who is 2m away then there is an issue.

[1man1desk]

Posted by Gog:
quote:how many people have routinely been issued helmet-mounted ear defenders as standard PPE kit? I had to buy my own, as we were only given ordinary ones that could not be worn under or over a hard hat and were, therefore, useless. Having said that, I don't think I've ever seen a photo of someone with ear defenders who's actually using them.
Your employer is not only responsible for supplying PPE, but for supplying appropriate PPE. If they have issued ear defenders at all, they have decided they are needed on that site, so they have to be usable. Make a claim for your ear defenders.

When I worked in archaeological units (quite a long time ago now), I was never issued any form of PPE other than hard hats, and those not often.
When I joined my current organisation in 1996 (not a unit, but I was doing site work), I was issued with a complete set of mostly good-quality PPE on day 1. It has been regularly replaced since. Although nowadays I only visit sites on an occasional basis, I am issued with the following (as are all staff who go to sites), and the company makes sure that they are used:
hard hat
safety boots
waterproof jacket and trousers (not hi-viz, so good for walkovers etc)
fleece
hi-viz jacket to go over waterproofs
gloves
helmet-mounted ear defenders
safety glasses
large lidded plastic box to keep it all in


1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[kevin wooldridge]

quote:Originally posted by 1man1desk
Your employer is not only responsible for supplying PPE, but for supplying appropriate PPE.

Your employer is also responsible for making sure that issued safety equipment is properly maintained and remains effective. Depending upon the type of equipment this could mean providing a laundry allowance (washing clothes) or a cleaning allowance (boots etc) or repairs and replacements (if waterproofs become ripped or leak). I am very impressed that 1M1D has been provided with a plastic storage box. A simple idea, but a goody...

One point that is often overlooked with regard to PPE. Due to the fact that archaeological fieldwork is a year round possibility in much of the UK, some types of PPE may be more appropriate for warm and wet summers than for cold and wet winters. My reading of H&S legislation is that 'appropriate PPE' means the right PPE for the right weather conditions, and therefore diggers should ask for the right gear for the right season. I think we had a discussion earlier in the year about warm weather PPE.

Here in Norway we have close fitting cotton and fleece skull caps (rather akin to the type of headwear worn by early 60's Russian cosmonauts) that fit snugly into hardhats and are attached to the plastic inner of the helmet. Haven't seen those in common use in the UK, but I am sure they must be available.

Haven't seen a donkey jacket on an archaeological site for years, but maybe there is a 'retro' fashionista statement to be had here. I always remember a wet donkey jacket being the hardest item of clothing to dry if it got very wet....

[geodan]

Used to wear a donkey jacket - a good few years ago - while doing mag surveys as it was none magnetic.

Horrible bit of kit, heavy when dry but three times the weight when wet, too warm when weather reasonable and not warm enough, unless layered to Michelin man proportions, when cold. About as windproof as a hanky and took ages to dry out properly - if at all when weather continually lousy - after getting wet.

It's 2007 and thankfully the great, great majority of donkey jackets have been mouldering for many a year in a tip where they truly belong. (They probably don't smell much worse now than they did after a wet winter)

Mind you, I bet there's someone out there who will swear it was the best type of jacket they ever owned.

Happiness depends on ourselves.

[Rachelintheoffice]

I see this one's been lying around for a long time, but it's been read a lot, so this may still be a useful tip for someone. Before you buy any boots, check with your prospective employer about HSE regulations on the site you're going to be working on. If it's a construction site, or an infrastructure project such as a pipeline, you're likely to be covered by the HSE of the contractors who are going to be building the houses/pipeline, even if they aren't actually on site at the same time as you are, and they can get really stringent about what you wear. Steel toe-caps are a minimum boot requirement on most sites, and a lot of firms these days are insisting on steel mid-soles as well. There is nothing colder on a winter morning than steel-capped and -plated wellies, but believe you me, the first time you hop out of the van on to a surface of crushed rubble, with window glass and circular saw blades sticking out of it, you will feel very cheerful about having them.

[Unitof1]

quote: the first time you hop out of the van on to a surface of crushed rubble, with window glass and circular saw blades sticking out of it, you will feel very cheerful about having them

before you do that you might like the re-read and re-write your risk assessment and notify your and your company’s insurers.

[oldgirl]

Thanks for bumping it, I hadn't seen it the first time round.

Rachelintheoffice I agree with what you've said. Toria, it's also true to say that the employer should be providing you with the correct PPE (personal protective equipment) for the site. This is so that (for example) you don't turn up with a hard hat that's 15 years old and going to shatter the first time anything hits it!

Health and Safety is THE most important thing on site (or anywhere else for that matter). The archaeology is secondary. No find is worth someone's life.

[Rachelintheoffice]

Sigh... by the time you're writing your risk assessment, you're already standing on the site...

I could also mention pacing out a measurement on some waste land and stepping through a tussock of thick vegetation squarely into the middle of a fly-tipped,smashed car windscreen - sadly, I was doing geophysics at the time, and wasn't allowed to wear steelies - and all those lovely urban sites covered in discarded needles.

[oldgirl]

quote:Originally posted by Rachelintheoffice

Sigh... by the time you're writing your risk assessment, you're already standing on the site...

I could also mention pacing out a measurement on some waste land and stepping through a tussock of thick vegetation squarely into the middle of a fly-tipped,smashed car windscreen - sadly, I was doing geophysics at the time, and wasn't allowed to wear steelies - and all those lovely urban sites covered in discarded needles.


Yes, we all work in some lovely placed sometimes, don't we!

The thing that annoys me most is the insistence on PPE which is inappropriate. You mentioning pipelines reminded me of the insistence on wearing full PPE including overalls in the middle of summer whilst doing a manual job...... madness!

[trowelmonkey]

Always ask before you take the job. My favourite is, "but we give you an allowance to buy your own PPE," as they dump you in the middle of nowhere.

[BAJR Host]

Health and Safety is THE most important thing on site (or anywhere else for that matter). The archaeology is secondary. No find is worth someone's life.


TRUE TRUE TRUE

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[Unitof1]

I was on a job 200 metres from a petrol refinery and they made us ware plastic goggles in case we got splashed ! Looking back what we should have said is that the refinery should be shut down whilst we were there if the was such a risk and negotiated our pay from there. Instead we meekly carried on, so I understand:


quote: Sigh... by the time you're writing your risk assessment, you're already standing on the site...

In the real world you should report and make all your fellow workers aware of potential hazards before during and after site. It should all be in the risk assessment before you get to site. You should set up a way that new hazardous situations are reported back and mitigated against. The fact that the attitude is so poor about risks puts archaeology in a very low denominator and what it does is leaves us to be pushed around by the vagaries of the construction industries with what ever oldgirl means by full ppe. Theres no such thing.

One of the sights that is starting to concern me a lot are these brick and concrete rubble crushers that they bring on to site. Apart from the noise, its the massive opportunity to break up asbestos into lots of pieces and dust which is then spread all over the place. I think that there is a huge time bomb waiting to go off as a result.

[oldgirl]

quote:Originally posted by Unitof1

I was on a job 200 metres from a petrol refinery and they made us ware plastic goggles in case we got splashed ! Looking back what we should have said is that the refinery should be shut down whilst we were there if the was such a risk and negotiated our pay from there. Instead we meekly carried on, so I understand:


quote: Sigh... by the time you're writing your risk assessment, you're already standing on the site...

In the real world you should report and make all your fellow workers aware of potential hazards before during and after site. It should all be in the risk assessment before you get to site. You should set up a way that new hazardous situations are reported back and mitigated against. The fact that the attitude is so poor about risks puts archaeology in a very low denominator and what it does is leaves us to be pushed around by the vagaries of the construction industries with what ever oldgirl means by full ppe. Theres no such thing.

One of the sights that is starting to concern me a lot are these brick and concrete rubble crushers that they bring on to site. Apart from the noise, its the massive opportunity to break up asbestos into lots of pieces and dust which is then spread all over the place. I think that there is a huge time bomb waiting to go off as a result.



Thanks Unitof1, I'd got sucked into construction speak with the 'full ppe', you're quite right!

And I agree on the brick and concrete rubble crushers. Even without the asbestos, the dust is really bad.

[Rachelintheoffice]

Wow, Unitof1, do you mean to say that you work on sites that somebody's been to and assessed before you get there? Cool! My HSE-violating record so far was an urban evaluation on which, when we arrived, the buildings were still being knocked down, although the demolition contractors had promised us they'd be finished and off the site. We couldn't turn round and go home, because it was a stay-away job and the B&B was booked and paid for, so we spent a week pulling trenches where we could fit them in among the debris, while stone trucks reversed and walls collapsed around us, and the dust actually buried small finds bags.

Yes, professional HSE officers can go too far: I too have had to explain to one that it's a bit difficult to plan accurately at 1:20 while wearing rigger gloves and safety goggles!

[Oxbeast]

"The thing that annoys me most is the insistence on PPE which is inappropriate. You mentioning pipelines reminded me of the insistence on wearing full PPE including overalls in the middle of summer whilst doing a manual job...... madness!"

This is nothing to do with either health or safety; it is about making people wear a uniform, and then creating a whole layer of middle managers to be uniform monitors. I wonder if the originator of this 16 month old thread is still in archaeology...

[the invisible man]

Having your accommodation pre-booked (whether taxable or not!) should not have had any influence on the matter. If this is not an example of when you should turn round and go home I don't know what is!

Costs would, in the 'real world', be recoverable from the party who screwed up the programming.

[Rachelintheoffice]

Think we've wandered off the subject a bit...

Going back to the original question, if your employer doesn't provide, or you don't like what's on offer, the famous ARCO catalogue is a good place to start (it is available online). I would certainly recommend investing in boots with steel caps and midsoles. Personally, I like a combat-style boot that covers the ankle bone and laces to the top - you're always clipping your ankles with tools or rolling rocks, and rigger-style boots fill up with loose spoil and come off in deep mud - which is why I generally end up buying my own.

[BAJR Host]

http://www.arco.co.uk/

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[BAJR Host]

Never liked Rigger Boots... I agree with high ankle boots.. waterproofed and steeled... Good set of waterproofs.. ! gloves... I even use cycling gloves with neoprene and gel palms (stops the blisters!) Kneepads... ya can't beat them.. and all you need is a cheap set... they are light and easy... and stop you hobbling about when you pass the age of 30!

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[oldgirl]

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

Never liked Rigger Boots... I agree with high ankle boots.. waterproofed and steeled... Good set of waterproofs.. ! gloves... I even use cycling gloves with neoprene and gel palms (stops the blisters!) Kneepads... ya can't beat them.. and all you need is a cheap set... they are light and easy... and stop you hobbling about when you pass the age of 30!

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers


Me too on not liking rigger boots. Plus they rub like mad if you walk very far in them. I agree on ankle support. Gloves I've never got on with (and its been quite a few years since I dug regularly and I still have the callouses!) Never really used knee pads either, which might be why I do hobble sometimes, but might not be!

Boots do need to comfortable, especially if you're standing for long periods of time (e.g. machine watching). I know loads of people who can hardly walk by the end of the day because their feet hurt so much. And in the winter I'd also suggest two pairs of socks. A thin cotton pair inside a thicker thermal pair, stops the feet getting too sweaty. :D

On other equipment, I always carry a hand tape and a knife of some description. Although I have to admit to cutting lengths of netlon with broken bits of flint (natural and broken by the machine before anyone screams!).

[vulpes]

Can you get Ugg boots with toecaps?

[Unitof1]

I prefer hooks rather than eyes

[Windbag]

I swear by German army surplus waterproof overtrousers- fully breathable, fully waterproof.

[vulpes]

quote:fully breathable, fully waterproof

What contradictory tosh!

[Gog]

Clearly not seduced by Berghaus advertising!

[vulpes]

No. I'm not, at all. It's a balance you can't be fully one thing and fully the other. Pedant, I know. But it's true!:D

Really not worth spending too much on the latest fabrics given the treatment they're liable to endure. Not very green, but buy, use, discard. Get what you can out of your employer, top to toe. Either through an allowance, direct or also speak to tax office it's deductable.

However, I reserve the bulk of my ire for the nonsense that is leather boots with waterproof linings. Just a waste of good leather really.

If it rains all day, you get wet. No way around it, other than catching up on paperwork! ;) Best bet is something properly windproof, it's easier and a better strategy to keep warm rather than dry. I hear neoprene is good!! :D

[the invisible man]

I understand there are clubs for that sort of thing........

So if it's not too windy you advocate working naked, except for steelies and possibly knee pads?

[oldgirl]

quote:Originally posted by the invisible man

I understand there are clubs for that sort of thing........

So if it's not too windy you advocate working naked, except for steelies and possibly knee pads?


[:p] I can imagine the screams if I tried that! 'Oh the horror'. But seriously (!), you'd probably need sunscreen! and a hat?

At least one cold winter my (then) partner found that you can put too many layers on. Eventually you get cold and then there are too many layers to warm up in the van on the way home!

[Windbag]

I've worked with a few "mountain men" archaeologists that enjoy working in exactly the same clothes no matter what the weather. Personally, I prefer to stay warm, dry and not too burnt!

[vulpes]

3/2mm in the summer, 5/4mm in the winter.;)

[vulpes]

quote:to warm up in the van on the way home!


You would surely huddle together!? Former partner. Hmmm.... Anyone know where I can get a neoprene donkey jacket? ex NCB preferred. Possibly the perfect apparel for site?

Oh, how I miss being (allowed) on site.

[Rachelintheoffice]

Multiple pairs of gloves are a good idea, because whatever the HSE man says, you can't do all the jobs you need to do in the same gloves. A hefty pair of rigger gloves for heavy digging: not full leather gauntlets, because you'll never be able to close your fists without rubbing the skin off your knuckles, but with leather palms and a leather knuckle strip. A pair of very thin woollen gloves for recording on cold days: they may take a bit of subtlety out of your grip on your pencil, but not nearly as much as not being able to feel your fingers does. Some swear by fingerless gloves, but I don't find that they keep my fingers any warmer than not having gloves at all, and besides, you can't get fingerless gloves on comfortably under the rigger gloves when mattocking in sub-zero temperatures... A pair of heavyweight rubber gloves, for bailing flooded features - trust me: you can't wear your regular gloves to do this because they'll be sodden for the rest of the day, and nobody needs to break the ice on their ditch section and then bail it with bare hands. Lastly, for machine-watching and stick-monkeying, get your parents to buy you a pair of Thinsulate double-gloves for Christmas. These are the ones that are knitted outside and Thinsulate-lined inside, with leather palms, and are fingerless, but have a mitten section that can be pulled over your fingers or folded back and fastened with Velcro. You can do nothing while wearing these, not even reach into your pocket, but they will keep your fingers attached for a whole day of holding a metal staff in sub-zero weather.
On the sock front, never go to site without a spare pair of dry socks, particularly if you're driving home (keep them in the glove box).

[oldgirl]

quote:Originally posted by vulpes


quote:to warm up in the van on the way home!


You would surely huddle together!? Former partner. Hmmm.... Anyone know where I can get a neoprene donkey jacket? ex NCB preferred. Possibly the perfect apparel for site?

Oh, how I miss being (allowed) on site.


You could probably get one made in a specialist shop...... (Former partner/ex husband either applies!)

Huddling together? Let someone else get their cold hands near me? Never! I have enough natural insulation (alright fat) to keep myself warm!

A very very long time ago (before the HSE got involved with archaeology) we did try the 'having brandy for morning and afternoon break' trick. Felt great at the time, but some of the site records were .....interesting...... so, perhaps I won't be recommending a hipflask.....

[oldgirl]

quote:Originally posted by Rachelintheoffice

Multiple pairs of gloves are a good idea, because whatever the HSE man says, you can't do all the jobs you need to do in the same gloves. A hefty pair of rigger gloves for heavy digging: not full leather gauntlets, because you'll never be able to close your fists without rubbing the skin off your knuckles, but with leather palms and a leather knuckle strip. A pair of very thin woollen gloves for recording on cold days: they may take a bit of subtlety out of your grip on your pencil, but not nearly as much as not being able to feel your fingers does. Some swear by fingerless gloves, but I don't find that they keep my fingers any warmer than not having gloves at all, and besides, you can't get fingerless gloves on comfortably under the rigger gloves when mattocking in sub-zero temperatures... A pair of heavyweight rubber gloves, for bailing flooded features - trust me: you can't wear your regular gloves to do this because they'll be sodden for the rest of the day, and nobody needs to break the ice on their ditch section and then bail it with bare hands. Lastly, for machine-watching and stick-monkeying, get your parents to buy you a pair of Thinsulate double-gloves for Christmas. These are the ones that are knitted outside and Thinsulate-lined inside, with leather palms, and are fingerless, but have a mitten section that can be pulled over your fingers or folded back and fastened with Velcro. You can do nothing while wearing these, not even reach into your pocket, but they will keep your fingers attached for a whole day of holding a metal staff in sub-zero weather.
On the sock front, never go to site without a spare pair of dry socks, particularly if you're driving home (keep them in the glove box).


All v sensible and correct as far as I'm concerned! spare boots which have been kept in the vehicle/site hut can also be useful to go with the spare socks. Putting warm dry socks into cold wet boots negates the advantage, I've found.

[BAJR Host]

I feel a re-edit of the
101 tips in Archaeology

http://www.bajr.org/Documents/101Tips.pdf

the socks one is vital!!

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[Dirty Dave Lincoln]

We should have some archaeologists on one of these personal make-over programmes-and see what designs they come up with.

[Rachelintheoffice]

Good 101 Tips all right, but may I add to the one about the woolly hat under the hard hat? The solution is to buy a ski-band, which will keep your ears nice and warm without interfering with the fitting of your lid.

[BAJR Host]

told you it needed an edit... :)

"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[Gilraen]

In terms of boots, many clients and developer contractors are insisting on lace up ankle boots and not the rigger type as they do not provide enough ankle support for trips and falls, so I would suggest staying away from rigger boots as in some cases they may not allow it.

Unless you are self employed, then your employer should provide all necessary PPE equipment.

[oldgirl]

quote:Originally posted by Gilraen

In terms of boots, many clients and developer contractors are insisting on lace up ankle boots and not the rigger type as they do not provide enough ankle support for trips and falls, so I would suggest staying away from rigger boots as in some cases they may not allow it.

Unless you are self employed, then your employer should provide all necessary PPE equipment.


There are some 'rigger' boots which have appropriate ankle support built in.

(Can't say I like them anyway, but I have narrow feet so it's difficult to get good ones at the best of times!)

edited due to spelling incompetence.....

[Unitof1]

I find any restraint around the ankle extremely uncomfortable particularly for kneeling and towelling. Even without ankle supports steel toecaps become awkward lead weights that want to twist into uncomfortable positions. You end up trying all manner of positions like squatting but quite often end up lying down on your front. Its normally at such a juncture that some budding potential curator jobsworth comes up and tells you to put your hard hat on, which makes spitting in their tea all the more worthwhile. Unless it’s a very deep narrow feature lying down is a sure sign that you are bushed and I blame boots and carting a lot of inappropriate so called PPE. I have dug on some Palaeolithic sites in shorts and a t-shirt, in bare feet and with boots on when appropriate. It was bliss. I cant help feeling my phlegm rise (not against Gilrean but the ethos) when I read this and any other humble acceptance of the so called construction industries expertise.


quote: many clients and developer contractors are insisting on lace up ankle boots and not the rigger type as they do not provide enough ankle support for trips and falls, so I would suggest staying away from rigger boots as in some cases they may not allow it.

Unless you are self employed, then your employer should provide all necessary PPE equipment

Trips and falls What (grid pegs I have sat on)

Maybe we should not be giving all this SAS standard, if you want to be in my gang advice to newbies because all we are doing is perpetuating a delegation of their responsibilities and don’t ever ever trust your employer with your safety.

Some magic potion dust that you might like to use instead

What happens if I am injured on this site and can never work for a week/month/year/ or ever?
What happens if I injure someone?
Can I see your insurance?
What does this insurance cover?

As a result theres a good chance that you will find your self perfectly safe by dint of being out of work.

In the main archaeology is a relatively safe past time for high impact accidents mainly because we are not thick but nobody has bothered with the long term effects which are probably more serious risks, and are not likely to as the desk pushers have total control of archaeology. The construction industry isn’t safe. It appears as a matter of pride that they maim and injure as part of daily procedure. As a result the insurances are expensive and extremely convoluted so dont be surprised if your not included.

[Oxbeast]

"The construction industry isn’t safe. It appears as a matter of pride that they maim and injure as part of daily procedure."

Are they trying you on new medication?:-(

[Unitof1]

Are we or are we not responsible for this

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/industry/construction.htm

[Unitof1]

http://www.contractjournal.com/Articles/1998/04/15/20721/site-crushers-used-to-hide-asbestos.html

On the news today they mentioned 4000 deaths a year....I am not sure a paper face mask does it.

[Gilraen]

Hmm - yes, in terms of the rigger boots argument, then I would prefer them as they are more comfortable and easier to slip on (laces trailing in the mud - nice). But now we are provided with both by our employer because of some changes in preferences and H&S directives of some construction companies.

I have come across many construction firms and demolition contractors and have encountered a wide range of H&S from the extreme to the scaringly lax (standing on a rickety chair with circular saw on a dodgy extension lead with no safety goggles or gloves hacking away at a steel pipe? Stayed away from that fellow). But because some companies may not be on a par with others, we should be repsonsible for our own H&S.

[Gilraen]

But we're getting off topic here. In terms of kneepads, I recommend the ones you can actually strap to your knees with velcro. You may look a bit of a tool, but it saves a lot of faffing around.

For winter digging, I recommend a balaclava. You just don't see enough of them these days, do you?

[BAJR Host]

quote:on a rickety chair with circular saw on a dodgy extension lead with no safety goggles or gloves hacking away at a steel pipe you obviously saw me and my new building recording techniques undergoing field trials! :D

Seriously though, you are right to say we are responsible for our H&S, given that we are quite within our rights to say NO... that is not safe. OR I am not properly equipped for the task.



"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers

[Sith]

quote:Originally posted by Gilraen

You may look a bit of a tool...


or a member of the Iraqi National Army. Although his seem to be doubling as ankle protection:



D. Vader
Senior Consultant

Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants

Your lack of archaeological imagination disappoints me Curator

[Gog]

quote:Originally posted by Gilraen


For winter digging, I recommend a balaclava. You just don't see enough of them these days, do you?


You want to turn it round then, so that the hole is at the front:D

[troll]

Once the boots are purchased, grab yerself a decent bottle of olive oil and apply inside and out allowing for drying between layers. You might smell like a fish and chip shop but you will be toasty and dry whilst others experience the Somme from the toes up by february. Over here, essential on-site requirements are:
1. One large date-laden palm tree for shady breaks,
2. Litres of cold water,
3. One pair of sunglasses,
4. Six litres of factor 100 sunscreen,
5. An anti-giant spider tennis racquet,
6. an infinite reservoir of director-tolerence and,
7. a love of goats. :face-approve:

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)

[Dirty Dave Lincoln]

erm..how big are them spiders?

[Rachelintheoffice]

I agree with Gilraen entirely about Velcro-fastening knee pads. The 'trowelling mats' that you used to get in heaps in the corner of the site hut when I was trowel fodder are good for nothing but tobogganing into the section on, usually when you didn't want to. The flat, hard-shell knee pads you get from builders' suppliers are better than the ridged, squidgy ones for not leaving marks on the edge of your feature.

[Rachelintheoffice]

Oh, and while we're talking about where to keep boots: never, EVER leave your wellies in the van, your car boot or the site hut overnight if it's cold. The rubber will shrink in the cold and stiffen up that way, so you'll be half an hour trying to get them on in the morning, and the chilled steel caps and plates will suck every bit of warmth out of your feet the moment they are on.

[Dirty Dave Lincoln]

Good points Rachel-ordinary knee-pads are either too tight and cut off the blood to your feet or too loose and keep slipping down!
And if your wellies have mud that freezes overnight on them then its no fun trying to put on blocks of ice in the morning!all you do is hurt your ankles-ouch.