Understanding Metal Detecting

[Steve-B]

Is perhaps an unfortunate title for this section, for, apart from one or two isolated cases, I actually see very little understanding, or a wish to understand what we do, why we do it and the contribution it makes and it does make a contribution like it or not.

At every stage the hobby is condemned, derided and snorted at, yet looking in another section where a guy is asking for advice on books.. what do we see but mainly references to books from metal detecting sources... ironic really dont you think?



www.detector-distribution.co.uk

[tom wilson]

Those books you refer to, while useful in some cases, were mainly suggested by and useful for detectorists. Field archaeologists don't tend to see those finds types very often.

Most of the examples given of what use metal detectoring can be have been provided by archaeologists. We do more than just find stuff, and metal detecting can do too. Your own input tends to be semi-coherent rants about whether you have a right to take away David's car and so on. This demonstrates that you haven't grasped the archaeolgical significance of isolated finds at all.

You are generally a rude and devisive influence on what is otherwise a thoughtful and open-minded debate. I suggest you come back when you have something constructive to say.

[BAJR Host]

Lets just remember that I don't want to see a return to he said.. she said....

If people have nothing to say other than goad each other.. then best not type.

There is plenty on here about understanding detecting... only when certain individuals lock horns does this spin out of control.

The book reference is a point that is well made, and easily answered in a polite manner as well. (Tom) The ref books are useful for a general overview... and I could also say that at Rallies, there are a number of Shire Books and archaeology books... you use what is appropriate. General books are just that. More detailed books are only appropriate when looking further into a aprticular subject.

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Steve-B]

Tom, I take it that you do not agrrew with my arguements for private collecting.

I see that you are typically selective in who you consider to be rude.

As to who recommended the books on the other thread, are you saying that the referrer were all detectorists?... I didnt know that.

I frequently sell books on detecting finds to archaeologists... so I still find it quite ironic.


quote:You are generally a rude and devisive influence on what is otherwise a thoughtful and open-minded debate. I suggest you come back when you have something constructive to say.

As to this comment, all I can say is, that when a modicum of respect is shown from your discipline and less of the habitual arrogance to those outside of it, then perhaps you yourselves with start being treated with a bit more respect in return.

Please try to bear in mind that is particularly difficult to present any arguemnt when one is continually being goaded and one comments consistantly being manipulated.

I have a very good understanding of the benefit of the information gleamed from isolated finds in respect of the common heritage thanks, it is archaeology that appears to be reluctant to recognise this contribution.

Anyway getting back to the point of this thread, it was merely an observation that the hobby does have its uses and does contribute to the wider scheme of things.


www.detector-distribution.co.uk

[BAJR Host]

quote:Anyway getting back to the point of this thread, it was merely an observation that the hobby does have its uses and does contribute to the wider scheme of things.

Yup. In my opinion detecting has 'uses' in archaeology - but can also stand alone as a hobby... As has been discussed on other threads, there is more to detecting than finding ancient artefacts.

There is much that can be utilised in the field of archaeology, as is the reverse. The situation is fluid at the moment, but more and more cases of colaboration pre development is happening as is the combined skills of detectorists, historians archaeologists and locals to create rounded heritage projects.

Horses for courses I say.... we can and do get on.... that does not mean we have to be breating down each others necks 24/7. It does require a certain ammount of responsibilities from archaeological organisations (mainly the govt heritage agencies!) and detectorists. Trust and belief. ;)

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[BAJR Host]

Little Reminder to everyone

Admin Staff and Moderators

quote:
# Please remember that these people have to devote some of their working day to running this forum. It detracts from their day to day duties.
# They reserve the right to amend, move, lock or delete posts where they deem it necessary to do so.

Manners and personal conduct

quote:# Do not shout at other contributors by posting in all capital letters
# Take care with humour that might work verbally but could lead to upset when rendered on screen. Please remember that tone can be misconstrued due to the limitations of e-media.
# Present your opinions in a tactful and moderate fashion.
# Do not be aggressive towards other members on this forum.
# Be civil in your interaction! Do not vilify, abuse, denigrate or call other members names.
# Read thoroughly and digest the thread and posts before replying.
# Do not mock others for grammar or spelling errors. There are many reasons why this occurs, you do not know the circumstances.
# If in doubt do not post.

Content

quote:# Your post should be constructive.
# The mobile phone short message style "txt spk" must be avoided.
# Please try to ensure your post is legible and easily understood.
# Posts that are deemed irrelevant to the discussion are subject to removal.

In general .... just be nice!


"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[beamo]

Tom

Steve's previous discussion regarding Mr Hosty's car was actually a contribution that raises very pertinent issues relating to collecting and ownership.

As far as I recall the question was about how collecting objects by way of metal detecting differs from collecting objects (eg cars) by way of purchasing etc.

I suppose there are several issues to this, and in the previous discussion there was mention of antiquity collectors and antique collectors, not to mention collectors of more modern ephemera.

In my view there are some very fuzzy distinctions and some very clear cut ones.

If the material being collected can only really come onto the market as a result of illegal incursions into sites of archaeological value -Etruscan vases etc, then this is unlikely to win the support of archaeologists. Most antiquity collections would fall into this category.

If the material being collected is available as a result of market transactions (i.e. there are unlikely to be any additions to the quanity of available material) then there is no problem archaeologically. Most antique collections would fall into this category.

In between these distinct categories are the more fuzzy bits which are where we (the archies) struggle to match our understanding with that of collectors. Essentially there are two main issues:
1. Collection of material where the collection methodology has the potential to cause damage to sites of archaeological value - a bit like the section above on antiquities but on a much reduced scale. This basically is the debate about digging below the ploughsoil.
2. Dispertion of material has the potential to provide information to those studying distribution, typologies etc. This is the debate about ownership, accessibility etc. It can overlap greatly with the discussion above regarding antiquities, as the same problems can occur
with anything in private ownership where studies of typology etc are still underway.

Thus both of the fuzzy areas described above are more in line with antiquity collecting than antique collecting or collecting of more modern material (including cars).

I hope that this goes some way towards answering Steve's question about how archaeologists see Mr Hosty's car ownership as different from the detectorists ownership of objects (and hopefully has not offended anyone in its tone if not its content).


Beamo

[BAJR Host]

Nope... and intereseting and illuminating post

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[tom wilson]

quote:Originally posted by Steve-B

Tom, I take it that you do not agrrew with my arguements for private collecting.


Firstly, I really don't care who owns what. I like data. That is all. You can keep your Saxon brooches or whatever, just as long as the data is gathered and accessible in future. There are some big implications of those caveats though. I'm really not a hard line anti-MD type, mainly because of ploughing etc.

However, no, I don't agree with your arguments as you put them and to be honest I don't think you do either, as elsewhere you have affirmed that historic objects have intellectual as well as monetary value. Thanks to Beamo for the calm and measured exposition though.

quote:
I see that you are typically selective in who you consider to be rude.

Not at all. When others have been offensive, I have remonstrated with them too. However, you are the only person I can recall resorting to swearing and name-calling in the past. It is unacceptable to me and no doubt to many others.


quote:
Please try to bear in mind that is particularly difficult to present any arguemnt when one is continually being goaded and one comments consistantly being manipulated.


Fair point. I didn't say you were the only inflammatory voice on this forum. It all depends on whether we are having a debate or an argument doesn't it. Do the participants want to reach the right answer, or do they want to win?
However, the purpose of this particular thread seemed me to cause further trouble, which is why I replied as I did.
However:


quote:
getting back to the point of this thread, it was merely an observation that the hobby does have its uses and does contribute to the wider scheme of things.


Fair enough. That's a contribution.
Point made; right answer reached.
I'll say no more about it.

[Steve-B]

quote:However, no, I don't agree with your arguments as you put them and to be honest I don't think you do either, as elsewhere you have affirmed that historic objects have intellectual as well as monetary value.

Actually I do or I would not have presented my arguements.

Of course the objects have an intellectual and monetary value, I dont see how that effects my arguement... just because something has a monetary value does not mean that it will be sold.

As to the intellectual value, this lies with the information the object can provide, not necessarily the objct itself.


quote:Not at all. When others have been offensive, I have remonstrated with them too. However, you are the only person I can recall resorting to swearing and name-calling in the past. It is unacceptable to me and no doubt to many others.

For you information, there are many ways of swearing and name calling, I just tend to do it a bit more bluntly than your good intellectual selves, so dont take the moral high ground with me chap, some of the archies I have met on here and elsewhere are equally as rudeif not ruder, I may not be as elloquent or highly educated but I still recongnise and insult when I see one..

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

[BAJR Host]

So now we are both clear ... As they say .... back to the Thread... we have kind of lost Beamos excellent post. Comments please.

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Steve-B]

Apologies to Beamo, it was indeed an excellent post, exactly the sort of response I was trying to get when presenting my original arguements.

Once I have caught up on my sleep I look forward to replying (semi coherently of course :D )

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

[kevmar]

I as a detectorist find archaeology and history
very interesting,something I read about,watch programmes
about etc im fact my wife says I pay it more attention
then I do her.[:I]
I won a place on an archaeological dig when I was
12 years old,and gave up my weekends for several months
and loved every minuite of it,from there
my mind was made up, this finding lost items in
the mud ,whatever they
are had me hooked.
What I would like to know,is how many people
(who actually condem detecting per se ) have actually tried it?
Done properly,finds recorded,treasure act followed,etc,
there is a massive contribution detecting gives towards our
history , heritage and understanding of the past.
Many museums would be by far the poorer if it wasn't
for the unpaid search volunteers that tramp over
the fields in all weathers.
Sorry if it sounds like a ''come and join us
campain'',but if you do
see steveb,
good prices everytime. ;)

[BAJR Host]

THanks Kev and Steve.... sleep all round... !

and Kev... sounds like a poem! I do believe if we do contribute and cooperate we do have so much to offer each other not pie in the sky... more blue sky thinking!


"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu