Doing A Phd

[Gilraen]

Hi All,

I'm hardly starting out in archaeology - got a degree and the much later a Masters which was 7 years ago now. To keep my brain active I thought of doing a PhD. I'm leaning towards doing a PhD with a practical aspect (rarely get a chance to get my trowel out now) and wondered if anyone knew - or for those who have done one - how on earth do you start thinking about doing a PhD? Are you restrained by university objectives or can you simply choose something and hope they go fot it? I would of course be doing this part time as I would always have to have a full time job. Any advise - good or bad (!) would be appreciated.

Gilraen.

[Tile man]

Hi,
I finished my PhD this time last year. It was entirely self-funded and on a topic of my own choosing, although my initial research questions were somewhat refined following my initial interviews, and developed somewhat in my first year. I started my PhD after 10 years working as an archaeologist in various aspects of the non-academic sector.

My advice is to make sure you have a topic you are able to work on for several years, have some clear goals, and then interview as many universities as possible for the most suppotive one.

My overall aim was to have some academic respectibility for becoming a free lance specialist - and so far everything is exceeding my wildest expectations

[tom wilson]

So Tileman (anyone else too), disregarding all other considerations how do you view the purely economic pros and cons of doing a PhD?

I am also thinking seriously about doing a PhD, but only because it would open up other doors. In commercial field archaeology there are probably other things one can do to improve oneself. An MBA might be better value than a PhD, for example (sadly).

We can discuss the joy of research and the lure of the ivory tower too, but those are separate issues.

[Gilraen]

Thanks Tile Man and Tom. Tile Man - how long did it take you to do your PhD? I understand it can take as long as you want it to, but roughly what do you think is a realistic timeframe to aim for? And has anyone out there done a PhD with a practical aspect? How easy was it?

And as for interviewing the Universities - is it a case of choosing the local Unis and then asking them if they would consider backing it (ie, offering supervisor roles, etc)? Sorry to sound so ignorant on the subject, just would be keen to get everyhting right in my head before going headlong into anything without all the facts and advice.

Thanks again...

[beamo]

Tom Wilson said
'In commercial field archaeology there are probably other things one can do to improve oneself. An MBA might be better value than a PhD, for example (sadly).'

If you want to move inot management or into consultancy, a Diploma in Planning might be quite useful.


Beamo

[Penfold]

Tileman
Glad to hear that your Phd has opened up your prospects, congratulations.
If its not a rude question what costs would one be looking at if doing a part time Phd and funding it one's self by continuing to work full time (hopefully). I realise it must take a great deal of self discipline, how many hours a week on average did you devote to your research?

Vive La Revolution

Penfold

[Tile man]

So many questions!
It was not a purely economic descision ( otherwise why am I in archaeology?!)It was a chance to get to grips with an area that was interesting to me - I did give up a permenant position with a pension to go for it, but it was the best way for me to proceed on my own career path. And I always planned to continue as a freelance specialist, able to work on the primary reseach material in the UK, and able to plan for my holid-...er... research projects in Syria etc. - not something I feel I could do easily in the academic sphere as it is presently constructed.

It had a practical aspect as the data was collected from my work as sinds co-ordinater/ tile specialist on a number of sites, and indeed most of my second year was spent working travelling in 4 continents...

The current time table for a full time PhD is three years, plus a further year for writing up ( I actually took a year out to work on another project but was still in time) I found having spent a decade coping with the tight deadlines of the commercial sector extremely useful training. You also have to be prepared to spend an awful amount of time on your own!! In terms of working hours - I worked to a basic 9-5 working day, with extra stints as and when ness, with occasional time off conferences, paid work etc.


As for costs - that will vary from instition to instition here at Leicester there is a very good course in distance learning/ part time PhD - they may be a useful first stop to ask for such details.

http://www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/dl/index.html

My own prefernce was to study full time, with the occasional tile report and paid project keeping thewolf from the door, but I think that is down to personal preferences and circumstances

[diggerhobbit]

if your thinking about a phd have you thought about trying out for funding to help with your studies? I was lucky enough to get funding for my phd second time round so i can now do it full-time. my first year was part-time with me having a full-time job which didnt work out that brilliantly for me (im not the best at being disciplined to work in the evening!), however, I have friends who have found this to work quite well. The university i am with had a bursary that paid for my fees for this part-time year - maybe the institute you do your research with have similar possibilities?. I also have friends who have managed to obtain funding from various different places, companies, businesses etc not sources that you would normally think of....for example, i think i heard of somebody getting financial help from a pet food company??? if they have a link even vagually with what you are going to study you may be lucky and get some financial help.

But there are hidden costs too, like paying for conferences and travel and producing laminated posters etc which all add up.

hope this helps, good luck

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

[drpeterwardle]

I really should be going to bed rather than writing something on BAJR but some things make me angry. I have certificate, I got a grant and I was sponcored.

A PHD takes up your life and is a major commitment. It is blood sweat and tears. Then there is the nightmare stage.

As for a part time PhD and a full time job - I take my hat off to anybody who has done it. In my case I didnt get a grant for a full 3 years. After the end of grant period it took me five years to get a draft to a thesis complete while working.

Definately

Dr Peter

[diggerhobbit]

quote:Originally posted by drpeterwardle

I really should be going to bed rather than writing something on BAJR but some things make me angry.


What has made you angry about this thread? I am sorry if i have misunderstood, but can you explain?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

[Gilraen]

I understand that a PhD is a huge commitment, especially with a full time job. I wouldn't really expect it to take any less than 7 years trying to fit everything in.

But do some people get bitter about it (er..Dr Wardle) I know that some people get very disillusioned about their subject after a number of years. That's one of the reasons for wanting to do a PhD with a practical element.

Is it all worth it?[?]

[drpeterwardle]

I will clarify what I said.

I enjoyed every minute of my PHD of it but it was blood sweat and tears. To get a PhD you have to do a number of things these are the rules...

You have to have a critical understanding of the literature in your subject area

You must pass a written and oral examination.

Your thesis must be publishable in whole or in part

You have to make a major contribution to your subject area.

When I started out I naively went for lunch, liquid, at the professors house.

He told me that I didnt have the ability, knowledge or ideas for a PhD. He was right I didnt - at the time. He said sorry but your not ready "would you like another gin and tonic?"

In my case I didnt actually want to do a PhD I wanted to research something and the PhD was the mechanism.

Dr Peter

[Gilraen]

Does anyone out there have a positive view of having completed a PhD?

Did you do it to move up the career ladder or just because you wanted to stay in academia for a while?

I'm aware that it's blood sweat and tears, but are all PhD experiences like that?

[1man1desk]

My wife did a PhD - it was extremely hard (as it should be), but very satisfying and something she is very proud of. She did it because it was absolutely essential for her chosen career (not archaeology).

I have a colleague (an archaeologist) who is doing a PhD part-time, on his own time, while doing a full-time job. He is doing it for fun!

My own view is that you should do a PhD for one of two reasons:

1 - academic: you are obsessively interested in a specialist topic and feel that you cannot live without researching it to the nth degree (my observational experience is that this is the level of commitment required)
2 - career: your chosen career path requires you to become a really serious expert in a particular field before you can progress.

No. 2 probably depends on No. 1 also applying.

My own view is - run away! run away!

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[Paul Belford]

I started doing a PhD part time whilst working full time a couple of years ago. But I have since come to my senses and abandoned it. Life is just too short and there are lots of more enjoyable things to do.

At the end of a PhD you might, just might, if you are very lucky, get a 'job' in the fiercely contested world of academia. This will probably be at the bottom end of the pay scale on a temporary 9 month contract whilst you fill in for a permanent post who is away on 'research'. If you are very very very lucky then you might get a 1 year rolling contract. After a few years they might give you a permanent job on a lecturer scale, providing you spend 20 hours a week doing teaching, 20 hours a week doing administration and another 20 hours a week contributing to the RAE by doing research. Plus lots of weekends at conferences and on field trips.

In summary - Three years back on student income, or seven years of no social life... at the end of which no guarantee of a job, if you do get one you have to take a massive wage cut, work longer hours and have less job security.

If you do go for it you need to make sure that the University you choose is willing and able to offer the right level of support. It can get very lonely.

[Gilraen]

Thanks all - some very good - and honest advice!