Clause 5

[Sheddy]

5. Wherever possible working on ground that has already been disturbed (such as ploughed land or that which has formerly been ploughed), and only within the depth of ploughing. If detecting takes place on undisturbed pasture, be careful to ensure that no damage is done to the archaeological value of the land, including earthworks.

There is no way I would stop digging a signal if it went below the level of the plough, but I would proceed with a lot more care, take notes and photographs if neccessary. If I started to notice a change in the soil make-up or colour then its time to stop and seek advice. Educate, don't dictate.

If an area is of archaeological importance then it would be scheduled. If its not scheduled and the arckys don't want us to dig there, then schedule it.

The bit about the earthworks I find insulting. No detectorist worth his/her salt would do that anyway. Those that would do so intentionally are going to take no notice whatsoever of this document (or what time of day it is either)

[Toby]

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[Toby]

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[BAJR Host]

I think the two last posts hit a nail on the head....Not dicating but educating - in both directions.

To Schedule every site is not possible though... ther are 'levels' of site, SAMs Sites, Monuments, areas of high potential (ie... there are no know sites, but there might be) etc etc only SAMs are fully protected by law. Its also not that we don't want them - as contrary to common belief archaeologists are not spending their time search for sites to dig (chance would be a fine thing!) (apart from the rare cae of the reearch project dig) but digging areas that are to be developeted... in other words... firefighting.

I agree about the earthworks thing, but it then makes it clear to new people, and I have to confess that in the day job, I often think - do I have to state 'put socks on before your boots' with it written down, it may be obvious, but at least its written.

Another day another WSI…

[BAJR Host]

I think the two last posts hit a nail on the head....Not dicating but educating - in both directions.

To Schedule every site is not possible though... ther are 'levels' of site, SAMs Sites, Monuments, areas of high potential (ie... there are no know sites, but there might be) etc etc only SAMs are fully protected by law. Its also not that we don't want them - as contrary to common belief archaeologists are not spending their time search for sites to dig (chance would be a fine thing!) (apart from the rare cae of the reearch project dig) but digging areas that are to be developeted... in other words... firefighting.

I agree about the earthworks thing, but it then makes it clear to new people, and I have to confess that in the day job, I often think - do I have to state 'put socks on before your boots' with it written down, it may be obvious, but at least its written.

Another day another WSI…

[Sheddy]

Toby, I appreciate your offer but I have alread recieved practical instruction on how to proceed. Thanks anyway! :)

[Sheddy]

Toby, I appreciate your offer but I have alread recieved practical instruction on how to proceed. Thanks anyway! :)

[Toby]

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[Toby]

forum

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[Paul Barford]

quote:Originally posted by Sheddy

The bit about the earthworks I find insulting. I am sorry, I cannot see why. The document you are discussing starts starts "Being respoonsible means...", it sets out what all detectorists ascribing to the Code regard as responsible behaviour. It's a Code of Practice not a "how to" information sheet. And sadly, I have seen (as I am sure many others have too) open and roughly plugged detectorists' holes in earthwork sites, so its not something that ALL detector-users believe wrong, so it makes sense to include it in a Code of Practice defining the a group of responsible detectorists.

Paul Barford

[Paul Barford]

quote:Originally posted by Sheddy

The bit about the earthworks I find insulting. I am sorry, I cannot see why. The document you are discussing starts starts "Being respoonsible means...", it sets out what all detectorists ascribing to the Code regard as responsible behaviour. It's a Code of Practice not a "how to" information sheet. And sadly, I have seen (as I am sure many others have too) open and roughly plugged detectorists' holes in earthwork sites, so its not something that ALL detector-users believe wrong, so it makes sense to include it in a Code of Practice defining the a group of responsible detectorists.

Paul Barford

[Sheddy]

Toby, if I have to dig a hole that goes beneth the plough then I'll always clear a larger are than neccessary, firstly to stop the spoil and other earth from falling back into the hole and secondly to provide some sort of Datum. In real life detectors don't go down much more than the depth of the plough anyway aso we are generally working within the depth of the plough anyway.

I do, however, own a very high spec detector that is capable of very good depth on objects the size of an old penny or larger. This machine doesn't get used too often as digging deep holes constantly is tiring and tiresome!

If you want to have a go at detecting I live in the south of Essex but do travel quite a bit. Your more than welcome to come out and give it a crack with me or if you have a tame farmer nearer to you I'll happily travel to your area (within reason)

[Sheddy]

Toby, if I have to dig a hole that goes beneth the plough then I'll always clear a larger are than neccessary, firstly to stop the spoil and other earth from falling back into the hole and secondly to provide some sort of Datum. In real life detectors don't go down much more than the depth of the plough anyway aso we are generally working within the depth of the plough anyway.

I do, however, own a very high spec detector that is capable of very good depth on objects the size of an old penny or larger. This machine doesn't get used too often as digging deep holes constantly is tiring and tiresome!

If you want to have a go at detecting I live in the south of Essex but do travel quite a bit. Your more than welcome to come out and give it a crack with me or if you have a tame farmer nearer to you I'll happily travel to your area (within reason)

[Sheddy]

quote:Originally posted by Paul Barford


quote:Originally posted by Sheddy

The bit about the earthworks I find insulting. I am sorry, I cannot see why. The document you are discussing starts starts "Being respoonsible means...", it sets out what all detectorists ascribing to the Code regard as responsible behaviour. It's a Code of Practice not a "how to" information sheet. And sadly, I have seen (as I am sure many others have too) open and roughly plugged detectorists' holes in earthwork sites, so its not something that ALL detector-users believe wrong, so it makes sense to include it in a Code of Practice defining the a group of responsible detectorists.

Paul Barford



Its quite simple Paul. I find it insulting. Are you saying that I am not entitled to an opinion? If so, kindly state it clearly and we can stop discussing the CoP now.

[Sheddy]

quote:Originally posted by Paul Barford


quote:Originally posted by Sheddy

The bit about the earthworks I find insulting. I am sorry, I cannot see why. The document you are discussing starts starts "Being respoonsible means...", it sets out what all detectorists ascribing to the Code regard as responsible behaviour. It's a Code of Practice not a "how to" information sheet. And sadly, I have seen (as I am sure many others have too) open and roughly plugged detectorists' holes in earthwork sites, so its not something that ALL detector-users believe wrong, so it makes sense to include it in a Code of Practice defining the a group of responsible detectorists.

Paul Barford



Its quite simple Paul. I find it insulting. Are you saying that I am not entitled to an opinion? If so, kindly state it clearly and we can stop discussing the CoP now.

[Toby]

forum

/form/

• noun (pl. forums) 1 a meeting or medium for an exchange of views. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a court or tribunal. 3 (pl. fora) (in ancient Roman cities) a public square or marketplace used for judicial and other business.

[Toby]

forum

/form/

• noun (pl. forums) 1 a meeting or medium for an exchange of views. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a court or tribunal. 3 (pl. fora) (in ancient Roman cities) a public square or marketplace used for judicial and other business.

[Steve-B]

Unfortunately I havent received the practical instructions that Sheddy has. I tend to rely on my own local knowledge of average plough soil depths and always look for indications such as soil compaction and colouration as a guide to how deep to dig.

I use a spade with an approximate 9 inch long blade, I have seldom exceeeded this depth despite receiving a signal or not.

During the course of my business I interact with a large number of new comers as well as more experienced detectorists, inevitably the conversation will come round to depth capabilites.

I go to great paisn to explain that depth is not the most important feature on a detector. That 90% of the finds we make are in the first 6 inches regardless of detector price or capabilities. And most importantly I remind them that we are metal detectorists, not excavators. Our interests lie in the disturbed topsoil, anything below this is the realms of the professional archaeologist.

I challenge anyone to annonymously call me at work and hear anything different.

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

For all your detecting needs.

[Steve-B]

Unfortunately I havent received the practical instructions that Sheddy has. I tend to rely on my own local knowledge of average plough soil depths and always look for indications such as soil compaction and colouration as a guide to how deep to dig.

I use a spade with an approximate 9 inch long blade, I have seldom exceeeded this depth despite receiving a signal or not.

During the course of my business I interact with a large number of new comers as well as more experienced detectorists, inevitably the conversation will come round to depth capabilites.

I go to great paisn to explain that depth is not the most important feature on a detector. That 90% of the finds we make are in the first 6 inches regardless of detector price or capabilities. And most importantly I remind them that we are metal detectorists, not excavators. Our interests lie in the disturbed topsoil, anything below this is the realms of the professional archaeologist.

I challenge anyone to annonymously call me at work and hear anything different.

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

For all your detecting needs.

[Toby]

forum

/form/

• noun (pl. forums) 1 a meeting or medium for an exchange of views. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a court or tribunal. 3 (pl. fora) (in ancient Roman cities) a public square or marketplace used for judicial and other business.

[Toby]

forum

/form/

• noun (pl. forums) 1 a meeting or medium for an exchange of views. 2 chiefly N. Amer. a court or tribunal. 3 (pl. fora) (in ancient Roman cities) a public square or marketplace used for judicial and other business.

[Steve-B]

quote:Then again I did get a beef sandwich that said 'contains nuts' on it... made me wonder about which cut of beef it was?


:D

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

For all your detecting needs.

[Steve-B]

quote:Then again I did get a beef sandwich that said 'contains nuts' on it... made me wonder about which cut of beef it was?


:D

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

For all your detecting needs.

[Paul Barford]

quote:Originally posted by Sheddy

Its quite simple Paul. I find it insulting. Are you saying that I am not entitled to an opinion? If so, kindly state it clearly and we can stop discussing the CoP now.
I am saying its a Code of Practice which sets out a minimum set of principles the people subscribing to it adhere to. I still see no reason for anyone to feel "insulted" by it, one either subscribes to it or not.
On the other hand, I can well imagine that in a similar vein there might be other detectorists who would feel equally "insulted" by the not digging below plough level bit of the Code of Practice. You feel "insulted" by dectectorists declaring they will not damage above-ground archaeology, such detectorists might be by being asked to declare they would not damage below-ground archaeology by digging below ploughsoil depth.
I would like to see both being protected by wide adoption of this Code of Practice as it stands.

Paul Barford

[Paul Barford]

quote:Originally posted by Sheddy

Its quite simple Paul. I find it insulting. Are you saying that I am not entitled to an opinion? If so, kindly state it clearly and we can stop discussing the CoP now.
I am saying its a Code of Practice which sets out a minimum set of principles the people subscribing to it adhere to. I still see no reason for anyone to feel "insulted" by it, one either subscribes to it or not.
On the other hand, I can well imagine that in a similar vein there might be other detectorists who would feel equally "insulted" by the not digging below plough level bit of the Code of Practice. You feel "insulted" by dectectorists declaring they will not damage above-ground archaeology, such detectorists might be by being asked to declare they would not damage below-ground archaeology by digging below ploughsoil depth.
I would like to see both being protected by wide adoption of this Code of Practice as it stands.

Paul Barford

[BAJR Host]

Agreed.

I think we can all get a bit insulted sometimes.. as toby says as well (the nutty nuts!) The earthworks and ploughsoil may be insulting to an old hand, but is good advice for a new detectorist...



Another day another WSI…

[BAJR Host]

Agreed.

I think we can all get a bit insulted sometimes.. as toby says as well (the nutty nuts!) The earthworks and ploughsoil may be insulting to an old hand, but is good advice for a new detectorist...



Another day another WSI…

[mercenary]

Forgive my naivety, but I struggle to understand how anyone (archaeologist or metal detectorist) could get much contextual information for a find removed from below the ploughsoil. Quite a wide area of topsoil would need to be removed to understand the underlying features, followed by careful excavation using stratigraphic principles. In essense an archaeological excavation. A few notes and photographs will only suffice if it is soon followed up by these procedures. I suspect for most MD'S this will involve bringing in external advice.

This kind of process is clearly going to be the exception rather than the rule, so there are very good reasons for not digging below the plough level part of the Code of Practice.

[mercenary]

Forgive my naivety, but I struggle to understand how anyone (archaeologist or metal detectorist) could get much contextual information for a find removed from below the ploughsoil. Quite a wide area of topsoil would need to be removed to understand the underlying features, followed by careful excavation using stratigraphic principles. In essense an archaeological excavation. A few notes and photographs will only suffice if it is soon followed up by these procedures. I suspect for most MD'S this will involve bringing in external advice.

This kind of process is clearly going to be the exception rather than the rule, so there are very good reasons for not digging below the plough level part of the Code of Practice.

[BAJR Host]

I would agree that when I have been out with detectorists I have only once seen a digging beneath ploughsoil... but it does happen... this is where the education comes in...

I would agree that digging into sealed layers is not the best for either the artefact or information to be gathered from the context. A sealed context is often a stable layer, where the layer has achieved an equilibrium.... removing an artefact from this will alter its environment and can be destructive... for example I have seen fastenings with textile attached, but within hours, without preservation, it can degrade quickly.

Perhaps the education is needed in both directions... where we both understand how and whys of detecting and archaeology.

A BAJR Guide? this would perhaps be the best vehicle for both this and an independent location for the commentary. This could be a stand alone and not overly interfere with the current CoP - much like a Captains log supplementary… a shortened version of the BAJR Guide to Field Survey, throw in the CoP with commentary – with the problems that are discussed here and on UKDN expanded on and explained… ) This could solve and deal with all the problems in one handy package?

Also talk in general about what detectorists think they should do… what archaeologists think (and visa versa)

And blow out some misconceptions about each other


Another day another WSI…

[Steve-B]

see below


www.detector-distribution.co.uk

For all your detecting needs.

[Steve-B]

Now that sounds like a worthy project...... didnt you mention something along these before....

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

For all your detecting needs.

[BAJR Host]

Indeed I did... got lost in the flurry of life as a BAJR :D

however... with help I want to bring it back on line....

I am having a minor break (down) and off to spain for a week... but want to get back onto it again.... nearly completed the BAJR Guide to Digi Photography as well... (me fingers me pies...!)

Another day another WSI…

[Steve-B]

Now is probably a more opportune time to do it perhaps?

www.detector-distribution.co.uk

For all your detecting needs.

[BAJR Host]

Yer right..... but I ain't ready to cope jsut now....

Launch of BAJR II, production of 500 letters for archaeologists, production of 6000 Wee books... CVs, holiday - a massive HLF bid for a community (inc MDs) project... a detecting survey of a new road next weekend... a YAC club Sunday and all... I have run out of days... (BAJR MegaCorp sadly being understaffed just now;) ) When I get back on 7th June I will get on to it... I can promise that... but shall we say... all this took me by surprise and so I am unprepared. I may have time to pencil out a section by section outline... so it can be worked on while I am away... you can't say fairer than that... [8D]

Another day another WSI…